RE: AW: [swinog] Black Sheep Swiss ISP: Backbone Solutions (was: Backbone PRO)
yes, we got also spam. i wrote twice to mr. vontobel and phoned twice with him (the 2 spammings before). he told me so many nice stories.. ... addresses from twixtel ... ... the put it into their customer database and now they cannot distinguish between these addresses and their 'real customers' ... etc. who else (except me, init7 and easynet) would be ready to stop peering with them? -stevne -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Viktor Steinmann Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: AW: [swinog] Black Sheep Swiss ISP: Backbone Solutions (was: Backbone PRO) We probably should all turn down peering session with Backbone Solutions to show them our gratitude for spamming. Are there other people on this list, which have been spammed by them? If it's only Fredy, then I'm not sure, if we can really call it spam. If it is spam, I will gladly stop peering with them... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: AW: [swinog] Black Sheep Swiss ISP: Backbone Solutions (was: Backbone PRO)
Yes, I received said spam too as well as other previous spam messages from the same people. I have blocked [EMAIL PROTECTED] The idea of stopping the peering is a good one which I will adopt now. Of course it would be better to keep the peering and announce invalid routes to them... -anthony Viktor Steinmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 04 Apr 2003: We probably should all turn down peering session with Backbone Solutions to show them our gratitude for spamming. Are there other people on this list, which have been spammed by them? If it's only Fredy, then I'm not sure, if we can really call it spam. If it is spam, I will gladly stop peering with them... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- | Anthony Uk| dataway GmbH | Tel. +41 1 299 9988| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Hohlstrasse 216 | Fax +41 1 299 9989| | PGP key ID EFD942A7 | CH-8023 Zuerich | http://www.dataway.ch | -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: AW: [swinog] Black Sheep Swiss ISP: Backbone Solutions (was: Backbone PRO)
Are there other people on this list, which have been spammed by them? If it's only Fredy, then I'm not sure, if we can really call it spam. If it is spam, I will gladly stop peering with them... got it also - but I think they have my contact address from my business card I gave to them some years ago (well at least not from twixtel or so ;-) nik -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: AW: [swinog] Black Sheep Swiss ISP: Backbone Solutions (was: Backbone PRO)
I respectfully disagree. It is one thing to be harbouring spammers, but quite another to be one. This is also not the first time, and discussions with Backbone have proved fruitless. It's thus painfully clear that Backbone are not at all interested in conducting themselves as would befit a good Internet citizen, which is after all what zero-settlement peering is all about. -anthony Jim Romaguera [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 04 Apr 2003: it'd seems like a case of 'cutting your nose off to spite your face'... - for too long dominant (imho: normally Telco mindset) ISPs (read Swisscom others in CH, UUnet in US, etc) have used peerings as 'weapons' or 'incentives' (I won't peer with you because you should pay us for a peering, etc). swinog actually helps to get around such nonsense. it seems a pity to see normal ISPs starting to use a peering as a 'penality or reward'. in the first instance a peerings goal is to help both parties get better and/or cost effective performance for them and their customers in the peer I mean it ain't like you won't get the spam traffic..you'll simply get it via your upstream (paying) link. - i'd say there's probably other ways to get to your result (blocking someone's spam) - but as always, each ISP can do what he likes with his peerings (that's the beauty of zero-settlement peers) Cheers JIm On Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:00:58 +0200, A. Uk / dataway GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Yes, I received said spam too as well as other previous spam messages from the same people. I have blocked [EMAIL PROTECTED] The idea of stopping the peering is a good one which I will adopt now. Of course it would be better to keep the peering and announce invalid routes to them... -anthony Viktor Steinmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 04 Apr 2003: We probably should all turn down peering session with Backbone Solutions to show them our gratitude for spamming. Are there other people on this list, which have been spammed by them? If it's only Fredy, then I'm not sure, if we can really call it spam. If it is spam, I will gladly stop peering with them... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- | Anthony Uk| dataway GmbH | Tel. +41 1 299 9988| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Hohlstrasse 216 | Fax +41 1 299 9989| | PGP key ID EFD942A7 | CH-8023 Zuerich | http://www.dataway.ch | -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- | Anthony Uk| dataway GmbH | Tel. +41 1 299 9988| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Hohlstrasse 216 | Fax +41 1 299 9989| | PGP key ID EFD942A7 | CH-8023 Zuerich | http://www.dataway.ch | -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: AW: [swinog] Black Sheep Swiss ISP: Backbone Solutions (was: Backbone PRO)
We gladly peer with every ISP there is in CH for free.. BUT A company which sends out spam and doesn't respect internet standards like netiquette is NO ISP. They are just a company lucky enough to have an own AS. So they should pay for transit to get their spam to us. Peering session removed. Viktor On Friday 04 April 2003 11:49, Jim Romaguera wrote: it'd seems like a case of 'cutting your nose off to spite your face'... - for too long dominant (imho: normally Telco mindset) ISPs (read Swisscom others in CH, UUnet in US, etc) have used peerings as 'weapons' or 'incentives' (I won't peer with you because you should pay us for a peering, etc). swinog actually helps to get around such nonsense. it seems a pity to see normal ISPs starting to use a peering as a 'penality or reward'. in the first instance a peerings goal is to help both parties get better and/or cost effective performance for them and their customers in the peer I mean it ain't like you won't get the spam traffic..you'll simply get it via your upstream (paying) link. - i'd say there's probably other ways to get to your result (blocking someone's spam) - but as always, each ISP can do what he likes with his peerings (that's the beauty of zero-settlement peers) Cheers JIm -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: AW: [swinog] Black Sheep Swiss ISP: Backbone Solutions (was: Backbone PRO)
Imho putting a access-list on your mail server or peering routers to deny all incoming mail from them would do WAY more harm than cut a peering. The management of a small ISP usualy don't care that much of peerings, it's usualy more a techies own pleasure. But if customers notice and start to complain that they can't send any mail to the rest of Switzerland, then the management (the guys in the big offices) will have to think about business policies and maybe will hear for the the first time in them life about netiquette and good behaviour. Don't punish the troops, punish the generals. My 2 cp.. Remo - Original Message - From: Viktor Steinmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:31 PM Subject: Re: AW: [swinog] Black Sheep Swiss ISP: Backbone Solutions (was: Backbone PRO) We gladly peer with every ISP there is in CH for free.. BUT A company which sends out spam and doesn't respect internet standards like netiquette is NO ISP. They are just a company lucky enough to have an own AS. So they should pay for transit to get their spam to us. Peering session removed. Viktor On Friday 04 April 2003 11:49, Jim Romaguera wrote: it'd seems like a case of 'cutting your nose off to spite your face'... - for too long dominant (imho: normally Telco mindset) ISPs (read Swisscom others in CH, UUnet in US, etc) have used peerings as 'weapons' or 'incentives' (I won't peer with you because you should pay us for a peering, etc). swinog actually helps to get around such nonsense. it seems a pity to see normal ISPs starting to use a peering as a 'penality or reward'. in the first instance a peerings goal is to help both parties get better and/or cost effective performance for them and their customers in the peer I mean it ain't like you won't get the spam traffic..you'll simply get it via your upstream (paying) link. - i'd say there's probably other ways to get to your result (blocking someone's spam) - but as always, each ISP can do what he likes with his peerings (that's the beauty of zero-settlement peers) Cheers JIm -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
