Re: [systemd-devel] [ANNOUNCE] systemd v39

2012-01-25 Thread Jan Engelhardt

On Wednesday 2012-01-25 02:02, Lennart Poettering wrote:

People have been asking us to maintain a NEWS file for systemd. We have
now added that:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/plain/NEWS
I have included all news from the previous release v38 there, please
have a look.

[v39]
* If a group adm exists, journal files are automatically
  owned by them

This sounds like it has the potential that journal files suddenly
beomce writable by a random user group that has existed previously.

[v38]
* Output of SysV services is now forwarded to both the console
  and the journal by default, not only just the console.

I would actually prefer if it wrote that to the current tty that
invoked the start action, rather than the console which is stowed
away in a deep cellar...

* Processes with '@' in argv[0][0] are now excluded from the
  final shut-down killing spree

Did you consider
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-January/004221.html ?
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Re: [systemd-devel] [ANNOUNCE] systemd v39

2012-01-25 Thread Kay Sievers
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:11, Jan Engelhardt jeng...@medozas.de wrote:
 On Wednesday 2012-01-25 02:02, Lennart Poettering wrote:

[v39]
* If a group adm exists, journal files are automatically
  owned by them

 This sounds like it has the potential that journal files suddenly
 beomce writable by a random user group that has existed previously.

The group 'adm' isn't random, is it? It's pretty commonly used for
'system monitoring' users.

* Processes with '@' in argv[0][0] are now excluded from the
  final shut-down killing spree

 Did you consider
 http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-January/004221.html ?

How? We do not and can not use pivot_root() during bootup.

Kay
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Re: [systemd-devel] [ANNOUNCE] systemd v39

2012-01-25 Thread Michael Biebl
Am 25. Januar 2012 12:00 schrieb Kay Sievers kay.siev...@vrfy.org:
 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:11, Jan Engelhardt jeng...@medozas.de wrote:
 On Wednesday 2012-01-25 02:02, Lennart Poettering wrote:

[v39]
* If a group adm exists, journal files are automatically
  owned by them

 This sounds like it has the potential that journal files suddenly
 beomce writable by a random user group that has existed previously.

 The group 'adm' isn't random, is it? It's pretty commonly used for
 'system monitoring' users.


In Debian (and derivatives) group adm is shipped by the base-passwd
package, so guaranteed to exist. The relevant documentation reads:

adm

Group adm is used for system monitoring tasks. Members of this group can
read many log files in /var/log, and can use xconsole.

Historically, /var/log was /usr/adm (and later /var/adm), thus the name of
the group.

The log files in /var/log that are created by the syslog daemon, are
owned by group adm.
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Re: [systemd-devel] [ANNOUNCE] systemd v39

2012-01-25 Thread Kay Sievers
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:59, Michael Biebl mbi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Am 25. Januar 2012 12:00 schrieb Kay Sievers kay.siev...@vrfy.org:
 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:11, Jan Engelhardt jeng...@medozas.de wrote:
 On Wednesday 2012-01-25 02:02, Lennart Poettering wrote:

[v39]
* If a group adm exists, journal files are automatically
  owned by them

 This sounds like it has the potential that journal files suddenly
 beomce writable by a random user group that has existed previously.

 The group 'adm' isn't random, is it? It's pretty commonly used for
 'system monitoring' users.

 In Debian (and derivatives) group adm is shipped by the base-passwd
 package, so guaranteed to exist. The relevant documentation reads:

 adm

    Group adm is used for system monitoring tasks. Members of this group can
    read many log files in /var/log, and can use xconsole.

    Historically, /var/log was /usr/adm (and later /var/adm), thus the name of
    the group.

 The log files in /var/log that are created by the syslog daemon, are
 owned by group adm.

That sounds all pretty sane to me, and like something distros should
adopt, if they haven't already.

We've did this kind harmonisation with the udev system groups a few
years back already, and I think just adopting 'adm' makes the most
sense here. Distros who don't want that can patch the sources as
needed.

We should always provide some common default, one that makes the
intention clear to have some sort of Linux distro default. And any
sensible common pattern that is already in use, we should just adopt.

I don't think caring too much about cases where someone might have put
all the people he did not trust in the group 'adm', is really needed
here. :)

Kay
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Re: [systemd-devel] automount regression

2012-01-25 Thread Tom Gundersen
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote:
 I noticed a regression in the automount handling that I could not
 immediately figure out. I know for a fact that this used to work a
 long time ago, and that it does not work with v39, but I have not
 bisected further.

It seems this was caused by:


commit 9ddc4a26e56b06cd7774a03597980351855d8d54
Author: Michal Schmidt mschm...@redhat.com
Date:   Fri Jan 13 23:55:28 2012 +0100

mount: fix quota

quotacheck.service and quotaon.service were not pulled in for fstab mounts.
Fix it by not clearing the default_dependencies flag.

The root filesystem may have quotas too, so don't check for / there.

No need to have duplicate code for adding dependencies on umount.target.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=773431




The following (partial) revert fixed my problem, but I'm not sure what
the proper fix would be.



commit 38ed3b9dcf083a614fc32e53a59d8b936aae6ee5
Author: Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no
Date:   Wed Jan 25 15:33:18 2012 +0100

mount: allow a mount unit to be WantedBy, but not Before local-fs.target

This partially reverts 9ddc4a26e56b06cd7774a03597980351855d8d54, probably
breaking lots of other things in the process.

diff --git a/src/mount.c b/src/mount.c
index 6d0af4e..5e2c8b6 100644
--- a/src/mount.c
+++ b/src/mount.c
@@ -584,6 +584,9 @@ static int mount_load(Unit *u) {
 if (UNIT(m)-fragment_path)
 m-from_fragment = true;

+else if (m-from_etc_fstab)
+m-meta.default_dependencies = false;
+
 if (!m-where)
 if (!(m-where = unit_name_to_path(u-id)))
 return -ENOMEM;
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Re: [systemd-devel] [ANNOUNCE] systemd v39

2012-01-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 25.01.12 11:11, Jan Engelhardt (jeng...@medozas.de) wrote:

 [v39]
 * If a group adm exists, journal files are automatically
   owned by them
 
 This sounds like it has the potential that journal files suddenly
 beomce writable by a random user group that has existed previously.

They are only readable to adm, not writable.

And adm has been defined as the group which (among other things
possibly) is allowed to read log files on Debian and a number of other
Linux distributions.

I think this is quite safe to do, and are very useful semantics that
make sense to adopt across all Linux distributions.

If a distro believes this a huge security thread, they are welcome to
maintain a patch to our sources in their rpms to use a different group.

 [v38]
 * Output of SysV services is now forwarded to both the console
   and the journal by default, not only just the console.
 
 I would actually prefer if it wrote that to the current tty that
 invoked the start action, rather than the console which is stowed
 away in a deep cellar...

We explicitly want to avoid that services are entirely isolated from the
user session they are started from. Running a service with the tty of
the user running the command would be the absolute opposite of
isolated.

In fact, this kind of isolation is one of the big features of systemd.

 * Processes with '@' in argv[0][0] are now excluded from the
   final shut-down killing spree
 
 Did you consider
 http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-January/004221.html ?

Hmm? what pecisely? I though I already made clear that there's a
difference between asking did this process originate from the initrd?
and shall this process be killed during the final killing
spree?. While there's a big voerlap, and only processes which qualify
for the former shall answer yes to the latter they aren't the same
thing.

Or, in other words: I really want people to think about this whole
problem before they exclude themselves from the killing spree.

Lennart

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[systemd-devel] [PATCH] logind: add sys_tty_config capability, to let it use VT_ACTIVATE ioctl on activate action

2012-01-25 Thread Mike Kazantsev

Good day,

Problem is that systemd-loginctl activate session-id gives
something like D-Bus call failed: Operation not permitted, while
strace of logind process looks like this:

epoll_wait(4, {{EPOLLIN, {u32=3, u64=3}}}, 1, -1) = 1
epoll_wait(9, {{EPOLLIN, {u32=166352544, u64=166352544}}}, 1, 0) = 1
recvmsg(8, {msg_name(0)=NULL, msg_iov(1)=[{l\1\0\1\6\0\0\0\2...
recvmsg(8, 0xbfc3636c, MSG_CMSG_CLOEXEC) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily 
unavailable)
open(/dev/tty0, O_RDWR|O_NOCTTY|O_LARGEFILE|O_CLOEXEC) = 13
ioctl(13, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or SNDRV_TIMER_IOCTL_NEXT_DEVICE or TCGETS, 
{B38400 -opost -isig -icanon -echo ...}) = 0
ioctl(13, VT_ACTIVATE, 0x1) = -1 EPERM (Operation not permitted)
close(13)   = 0
sendmsg(8, {msg_name(0)=NULL, msg_iov(2)=[{l\3\1\1\34\0\0\0\243\0...

So it looks like activate fails without that capability.
I'm not sure what it's supposed to do though, and stumbled upon it
while looking into unrelated issue, so maybe it's supposed to act this
way.

michich seemed to agree on irc that the cap should be there, but since
it doesn't seem to be in git yet, I thought I'd mail the patch.


From 1e9da2f9ba2e996987eb6e7b8810efe2b933d2de Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Mike Kazantsev mk.frag...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:09:03 +0600
Subject: [PATCH] logind: add sys_tty_config capability, to let it use
 VT_ACTIVATE ioctl on activate action

---
 units/systemd-logind.service.in |2 +-
 1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)

diff --git a/units/systemd-logind.service.in b/units/systemd-logind.service.in
index c332039..531b8f7 100644
--- a/units/systemd-logind.service.in
+++ b/units/systemd-logind.service.in
@@ -14,7 +14,7 @@ Description=Login Service
 ExecStart=@rootlibexecdir@/systemd-logind
 Type=dbus
 BusName=org.freedesktop.login1
-CapabilityBoundingSet=CAP_AUDIT_CONTROL CAP_CHOWN CAP_KILL CAP_DAC_READ_SEARCH 
CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE CAP_FOWNER
+CapabilityBoundingSet=CAP_AUDIT_CONTROL CAP_CHOWN CAP_KILL CAP_DAC_READ_SEARCH 
CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE CAP_FOWNER CAP_SYS_TTY_CONFIG
 
 # Increase the default a bit in order to allow many simultaneous
 # logins since we keep one fd open per session.
-- 
1.7.8.1


-- 
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[systemd-devel] [PATCH] build-sys: add creation of /var/lib/systemd path, used by logind

2012-01-25 Thread Mike Kazantsev
Good day,

Another issue I've spotted with logind on my system.

systemd-loginctl enable-linger goes to src/login/logind-dbus.c:1191,
which seem to do:

  r = safe_mkdir(/var/lib/systemd/linger, 0755, 0, 0);

...and fails, producing something like D-Bus call failed: No such file
or directory from systemd-loginctl, because /var/lib/systemd doesn't
seem to be installed during regular make install.

Not sure if it has to be abstracted via localstatedir or something, but
since it's hard-coded in logind anyway, I thought not to bother with it.


From ff10029e24cfc4d05228c1ac7b3dc06e615c8e0c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Mike Kazantsev mk.frag...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:24:02 +0600
Subject: [PATCH] build-sys: add creation of /var/lib/systemd path, used by
 logind

---
 Makefile.am |2 ++
 1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Makefile.am b/Makefile.am
index 15190b4..08296b2 100644
--- a/Makefile.am
+++ b/Makefile.am
@@ -1979,6 +1979,8 @@ polkitpolicy_in_files += \
 
 logind-install-data-hook:
$(MKDIR_P) -m 0755 \
+   $(DESTDIR)$(rootprefix)/var/lib/systemd
+   $(MKDIR_P) -m 0755 \
$(DESTDIR)$(systemunitdir)/multi-user.target.wants
( cd $(DESTDIR)$(systemunitdir)  \
rm -f dbus-org.freedesktop.login1.service  \
-- 
1.7.8.1

-- 
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Re: [systemd-devel] [ANNOUNCE] systemd v39

2012-01-25 Thread Michal Schmidt

On 01/25/2012 03:57 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:

On Wed, 25.01.12 11:11, Jan Engelhardt (jeng...@medozas.de) wrote:

I would actually prefer if it wrote that to the current tty that
invoked the start action, rather than the console which is stowed
away in a deep cellar...


We explicitly want to avoid that services are entirely isolated from the
user session they are started from. Running a service with the tty of
the user running the command would be the absolute opposite of
isolated.


We could make systemctl start ... dump a few of the service's lines 
from the journal before exiting.


Michal
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Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] build-sys: add creation of /var/lib/systemd path, used by logind

2012-01-25 Thread Kay Sievers
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 16:33, Mike Kazantsev mk.frag...@gmail.com wrote:
 Good day,

 Another issue I've spotted with logind on my system.

 systemd-loginctl enable-linger goes to src/login/logind-dbus.c:1191,
 which seem to do:

  r = safe_mkdir(/var/lib/systemd/linger, 0755, 0, 0);

 ...and fails, producing something like D-Bus call failed: No such file
 or directory from systemd-loginctl, because /var/lib/systemd doesn't
 seem to be installed during regular make install.

 Not sure if it has to be abstracted via localstatedir or something, but
 since it's hard-coded in logind anyway, I thought not to bother with it.
  logind-install-data-hook:
        $(MKDIR_P) -m 0755 \
 +               $(DESTDIR)$(rootprefix)/var/lib/systemd
 +       $(MKDIR_P) -m 0755 \

It probably is: $(localstatedir)/lib. Rootprefix must not be involved.
That stuff is never in /usr.

Kay
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Re: [systemd-devel] [PATCH] build-sys: add creation of /var/lib/systemd path, used by logind

2012-01-25 Thread Mike Kazantsev
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:43:35 +0100
Kay Sievers kay.siev...@vrfy.org wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 16:33, Mike Kazantsev mk.frag...@gmail.com wrote:
...
 
  Not sure if it has to be abstracted via localstatedir or something, but
  since it's hard-coded in logind anyway, I thought not to bother with it.
   logind-install-data-hook:
         $(MKDIR_P) -m 0755 \
  +               $(DESTDIR)$(rootprefix)/var/lib/systemd
  +       $(MKDIR_P) -m 0755 \
 
 It probably is: $(localstatedir)/lib. Rootprefix must not be involved.
 That stuff is never in /usr.

Fair enough. Updated version follows.


From c48f23ae82a8efac59f025e2534a97754b279f60 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Mike Kazantsev mk.frag...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:24:02 +0600
Subject: [PATCH] build-sys: add creation of /var/lib/systemd path, used by
 logind

---
 Makefile.am |2 ++
 1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Makefile.am b/Makefile.am
index 15190b4..9f2a893 100644
--- a/Makefile.am
+++ b/Makefile.am
@@ -1979,6 +1979,8 @@ polkitpolicy_in_files += \
 
 logind-install-data-hook:
$(MKDIR_P) -m 0755 \
+   $(DESTDIR)$(localstatedir)/lib/systemd
+   $(MKDIR_P) -m 0755 \
$(DESTDIR)$(systemunitdir)/multi-user.target.wants
( cd $(DESTDIR)$(systemunitdir)  \
rm -f dbus-org.freedesktop.login1.service  \
-- 
1.7.8.1

-- 
Mike Kazantsev // fraggod.net


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Re: [systemd-devel] hwclock

2012-01-25 Thread Tom Gundersen
Hi David,

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:49 PM, David Thurgood d.r.thurg...@gmx.com wrote:
 I am hoping that this is an appropriate place for a feature request with
 respect to the program hwclock.

hwclock is part of the util-linux package, so you'd probably have more
luck emailing util-li...@vger.kernel.org. systemd does not write to
your rtc (though it does read it).

Cheers,

Tom
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Re: [systemd-devel] [ANNOUNCE] systemd v39

2012-01-25 Thread Bill Nottingham
Michal Schmidt (mschm...@redhat.com) said: 
 On 01/25/2012 03:57 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
 On Wed, 25.01.12 11:11, Jan Engelhardt (jeng...@medozas.de) wrote:
 I would actually prefer if it wrote that to the current tty that
 invoked the start action, rather than the console which is stowed
 away in a deep cellar...
 
 We explicitly want to avoid that services are entirely isolated from the
 user session they are started from. Running a service with the tty of
 the user running the command would be the absolute opposite of
 isolated.
 
 We could make systemctl start ... dump a few of the service's
 lines from the journal before exiting.

At that point you're then trying to define heuristics about what the proper
value for 'a few' is, and then you're guaranteed to get it wrong for some
set of services. Not sure it's worth the effort.

Bill
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Re: [systemd-devel] hwclock

2012-01-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 25.01.12 14:49, David Thurgood (d.r.thurg...@gmx.com) wrote:

Dear Sir,
I am hoping that this is an appropriate place for a feature request with
respect to the program hwclock.
 
This relates to a very old problem, which as I remember goes back to the
PC's of the 70's and 80's.  My present PC seems to have just the same
issue.  It is this, that when the hardware clock is adjusted/reset then
the BIOS wake-on-alarm is deactivated.  I am sure that you guys know this
well enough.  So this is the simple request, please read the alarm state
before any adjustments, and restore them afterwards.  Thus whatever the
user has set will remain valid.

I think this is something that should be worked around in the kernel
drivers. Please file a bug on https://bugzilla.kernel.org/ !

Feel free to CC me on that bug, my login there is mzxre...@0pointer.de

Thanks,

Lennart

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Re: [systemd-devel] [ANNOUNCE] systemd v39

2012-01-25 Thread Michal Schmidt

On 01/25/2012 05:34 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:

Michal Schmidt (mschm...@redhat.com) said:

We could make systemctl start ... dump a few of the service's
lines from the journal before exiting.


At that point you're then trying to define heuristics about what the proper
value for 'a few' is, and then you're guaranteed to get it wrong for some
set of services. Not sure it's worth the effort.


'A few' could be defined as everything the service wrote between the 
time we told it to start and the time it finished starting (or failed).
systemd has the timestamps. Or these important events can be found in 
the journal as well.


Michal
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[systemd-devel] BindTo not working as expected with .target ?

2012-01-25 Thread Frederic Crozat
Hi all,

I'm trying to get a .target working as a trigger one action then go
back to not activated state and despite Lennart help on IRC, it keeps
failing, so it might indicate a bug :

foobar.target :
[Unit]
Description=my trigger target
BindTo=myaction.service

myaction.service:
[Unit]
Description=my action

[Service]
ExecStart=/bin/true
Type=oneshot
RemainAfterExit=false

when starting foobar.target, myaction.service is correctly started, then
service terminates, is no longer active, but foobar.target is still seen
as active.

BTW, it could be interesting to allow foobar.target.bindto symlink to
be created, so we wouldn't have to modify system targets (for instance,
sigpwr.target ;) to add BindTo dependencies.
-- 
Frederic Crozat fcro...@suse.com
SUSE

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[systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Interface Portability And Stability Chart

2012-01-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
Heya,

to be nice to those who are interested in maintaining a level of
compatibility with the interfaces we have introduced with systemd
without making use of systemd, I have put together this extensive (and
hopefully comprehensive) table:

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/InterfacePortabilityAndStabilityChart

Many of these APIs are already in heavy usage by applications and 3rd
party code.

Of course, it's up to you to decide whether your time is best spent on
reimplementing these systemd interfaces instead of just adopting
systemd right-away...

Lennart

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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Interface Portability And Stability Chart

2012-01-25 Thread William Swanson
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Lennart Poettering
lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
 Many of these APIs are already in heavy usage by applications and 3rd
 party code.

The Arch Linux native initscripts just recently adopted your
/etc/locale.conf file, and could go in the Known Other
Implementations column for that.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Locale.conf

-William Swanson
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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Interface Portability And Stability Chart

2012-01-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 25.01.12 13:04, William Swanson (swanson...@gmail.com) wrote:

 
 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Lennart Poettering
 lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
  Many of these APIs are already in heavy usage by applications and 3rd
  party code.
 
 The Arch Linux native initscripts just recently adopted your
 /etc/locale.conf file, and could go in the Known Other
 Implementations column for that.
 
 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Locale.conf

Thanks! Added!

Lennart

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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Interface Portability And Stability Chart

2012-01-25 Thread Tom Gundersen
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Lennart Poettering
lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
 On Wed, 25.01.12 13:04, William Swanson (swanson...@gmail.com) wrote:


 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Lennart Poettering
 lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
  Many of these APIs are already in heavy usage by applications and 3rd
  party code.

 The Arch Linux native initscripts just recently adopted your
 /etc/locale.conf file, and could go in the Known Other
 Implementations column for that.

 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Locale.conf

 Thanks! Added!

For what it's worth, Arch's also has support for:

/etc/tmpfiles.d
/etc/hostname
/etc/sysctl.d
/etc/vconsole.conf
/run

In addition to the initrd interfaces for fsck and shutdown (but they
are not in the table).

(I tried to add this myself to the chart, but it appears it is immutable.)

Cheers,

Tom
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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Interface Portability And Stability Chart

2012-01-25 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 25.01.12 23:12, Tom Gundersen (t...@jklm.no) wrote:

  The Arch Linux native initscripts just recently adopted your
  /etc/locale.conf file, and could go in the Known Other
  Implementations column for that.
 
  https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Locale.conf
 
  Thanks! Added!
 
 For what it's worth, Arch's also has support for:
 
 /etc/tmpfiles.d
 /etc/hostname
 /etc/sysctl.d
 /etc/vconsole.conf
 /run

Thanks, added!

 In addition to the initrd interfaces for fsck and shutdown (but they
 are not in the table).

Well, they are included in the initrd interface item, the flag files
bit of it.

I have no added ArchLinux for both sides as consumer and provider of
this interface, right?

 (I tried to add this myself to the chart, but it appears it is immutable.)

Oh, it's immutable if you didn't log in into the wiki. I figure that's a
bit weirdly named in moinmoint. But basically, if you have a wiki
account you get full write access, and you are welcome to make those
changes.

Lennart

-- 
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Interface Portability And Stability Chart

2012-01-25 Thread Tom Gundersen
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Lennart Poettering
lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
 On Wed, 25.01.12 23:12, Tom Gundersen (t...@jklm.no) wrote:
 In addition to the initrd interfaces for fsck and shutdown (but they
 are not in the table).

 Well, they are included in the initrd interface item, the flag files
 bit of it.

 I have no added ArchLinux for both sides as consumer and provider of
 this interface, right?

Correct.

 Oh, it's immutable if you didn't log in into the wiki. I figure that's a
 bit weirdly named in moinmoint. But basically, if you have a wiki
 account you get full write access, and you are welcome to make those
 changes.

Ah, I see. I'll keep it up to date then, if things change.

-t
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