Re: [systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] [systemd???devel] starting networking from within single user mode?
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 07:57:21AM +0100, Ulrich Windl wrote: > Unless you used the options to ignore dependencies, that would mean that > either the dependencies were not correct in the RPM packages, or some unistall > scripts were not. Both would be bugs. My organization is running some weird upgrade process that does more than zypper does. I'm certain the bugginess is in our weird process. We are honoring dependencies, but clearly something else is awry. Characterizing the effects of the bugginess is hard, which is what spurred my original question. > However: When you used SUSE's standard installation using BtrFS, you should > have been able to boot a recent snapshot. The codebase I inherited does not employ BtrFS. I have a large pile of frustration about how we do things, but that's our mess, and not related to systemd. I do appreciate your feedback on the matter, nonetheless. -- Brian Reichert BSD admin/developer at large
Re: [systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] [systemd???devel] starting networking from within single user mode?
On Mo, 14.11.22 15:06, Michael Biebl (mbi...@gmail.com) wrote: > Yeah, can we please block this Ulrich Windl guy. > He's been more of a nuisance than a benefit to this community. I have put him on moderation now. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Berlin
Re: [systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] [systemd???devel] starting networking from within single user mode?
Yeah, can we please block this Ulrich Windl guy. He's been more of a nuisance than a benefit to this community. Am Mo., 14. Nov. 2022 um 09:17 Uhr schrieb Mantas Mikulėnas : > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 9:00 AM Ulrich Windl > wrote: >> >> >>> Mantas Mikulenas schrieb am 11.11.2022 um 15:49 in >> Nachricht >> : >> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:19 PM Brian Reichert >> > wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 08:02:00AM +0100, Ulrich Windl wrote: >> >> > >>> Brian Reichert schrieb am 10.11.2022 um >> >> 23:04 in >> >> > Nachricht <20221110220426.ga17...@numachi.com>: >> >> > > I've managed to hose a SLES12 SP5 host; it starts to boot, then hangs. >> >> > >> >> > And what did you do to mess it up? And what do the boot messages say? >> >> >> >> A good question, and not specific to systemd, so I don't want to >> >> pollute the list archives too much on this matter. >> >> >> >> 'All' I did was remove many RPMs that I arbitrarily deemed >> >> unnecessary. >> >> >> >> I came up with a heavily trimmed-down list of SLES RPM for my SLES12 >> >> Sp5 environment. >> >> >> >> I successfully installed a server using just that trimmed-down list; >> >> yay me! >> >> >> >> I then explored 'upgrading' a running (slight older) SP5 box, using >> >> this trimmed-down list. A purposeful side effect was to uninstall >> >> RPMs not in that trimmed-down list. >> >> >> >> This latter box begins to boot, and gets at least as far as loading >> >> the initrd image, before hanging. >> >> >> > >> > Boot with "systemd.debug-shell" and use tty9 to investigate from the >> > inside. >> >> Wow! never heard of that option. Is that a kind of target, or what is the >> mechanism? >> Which of the 196 (man -k systemd | wc -l) systemd-related manual pages would >> describe it? ;-) > > > The more I read your smartass sarcastic comments here, the less I feel like > staying on this list and helping *other* people with finding stuff in those > 196 systemd-related manual pages. But I suppose that's what you want to > achieve, so that you can snark even more about how "systemd is so complex > that nobody's bothering to reply to the list anymore"? > > For those who have *actually* never heard of that option, it is documented in > systemd-debug-generator(8). > > -- > Mantas Mikulėnas
Re: [systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] [systemd???devel] starting networking from within single user mode?
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 9:00 AM Ulrich Windl < ulrich.wi...@rz.uni-regensburg.de> wrote: > >>> Mantas Mikulenas schrieb am 11.11.2022 um 15:49 in > Nachricht > : > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:19 PM Brian Reichert > wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 08:02:00AM +0100, Ulrich Windl wrote: > >> > >>> Brian Reichert schrieb am 10.11.2022 um > >> 23:04 in > >> > Nachricht <20221110220426.ga17...@numachi.com>: > >> > > I've managed to hose a SLES12 SP5 host; it starts to boot, then > hangs. > >> > > >> > And what did you do to mess it up? And what do the boot messages say? > >> > >> A good question, and not specific to systemd, so I don't want to > >> pollute the list archives too much on this matter. > >> > >> 'All' I did was remove many RPMs that I arbitrarily deemed > >> unnecessary. > >> > >> I came up with a heavily trimmed-down list of SLES RPM for my SLES12 > >> Sp5 environment. > >> > >> I successfully installed a server using just that trimmed-down list; > >> yay me! > >> > >> I then explored 'upgrading' a running (slight older) SP5 box, using > >> this trimmed-down list. A purposeful side effect was to uninstall > >> RPMs not in that trimmed-down list. > >> > >> This latter box begins to boot, and gets at least as far as loading > >> the initrd image, before hanging. > >> > > > > Boot with "systemd.debug-shell" and use tty9 to investigate from the > inside. > > Wow! never heard of that option. Is that a kind of target, or what is the > mechanism? > Which of the 196 (man -k systemd | wc -l) systemd-related manual pages > would describe it? ;-) > The more I read your smartass sarcastic comments here, the less I feel like staying on this list and helping *other* people with finding stuff in those 196 systemd-related manual pages. But I suppose that's what you want to achieve, so that you can snark even more about how "systemd is so complex that nobody's bothering to reply to the list anymore"? For those who have *actually* never heard of that option, it is documented in systemd-debug-generator(8). -- Mantas Mikulėnas
Re: [systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] [systemd???devel] starting networking from within single user mode?
>>> Brian Reichert schrieb am 11.11.2022 um 15:19 in Nachricht <2022141913.gc17...@numachi.com>: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 08:02:00AM +0100, Ulrich Windl wrote: >> >>> Brian Reichert schrieb am 10.11.2022 um 23:04 in >> Nachricht <20221110220426.ga17...@numachi.com>: >> > I've managed to hose a SLES12 SP5 host; it starts to boot, then hangs. >> >> And what did you do to mess it up? And what do the boot messages say? > > A good question, and not specific to systemd, so I don't want to > pollute the list archives too much on this matter. > > 'All' I did was remove many RPMs that I arbitrarily deemed > unnecessary. Unless you used the options to ignore dependencies, that would mean that either the dependencies were not correct in the RPM packages, or some unistall scripts were not. Both would be bugs. However: When you used SUSE's standard installation using BtrFS, you should have been able to boot a recent snapshot. > > I came up with a heavily trimmed‑down list of SLES RPM for my SLES12 > Sp5 environment. > > I successfully installed a server using just that trimmed‑down list; > yay me! So that would mean incorrect uninstall scripts most likely. > > I then explored 'upgrading' a running (slight older) SP5 box, using > this trimmed‑down list. A purposeful side effect was to uninstall > RPMs not in that trimmed‑down list. > > This latter box begins to boot, and gets at least as far as loading > the initrd image, before hanging. Well, what does "hanging" mean exactly? systemd waiting for something? I have one Fedora-based installation that hangs on some LVM monitor indefinitely (while the VG is fine) for unknown reasons. I just had to add a kernel boot option to block that monitor. > > I'm pretty certain there's something mismanaged with replacing the > kernel, but not properly managing all of the related boot files > (kdump? device probing? etc.) If the initrd loaded, it's most likely an incorrect initrd. Did you install current patches? There were some MD, LVM, dracut-related patches recently... > > Anyway, that's my mess. Not at all related to systemd, near as I > can tell. I just have to methodically narrow down on where my > process jumps the tracks. Yes, but sometimes knowing what you did or what the messages are helps to diagnose and eventuall help ;-) Regards, Ulrich > > ‑‑ > Brian Reichert > BSD admin/developer at large
Re: [systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] [systemd???devel] starting networking from within single user mode?
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:19 PM Brian Reichert wrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 08:02:00AM +0100, Ulrich Windl wrote: > > >>> Brian Reichert schrieb am 10.11.2022 um > 23:04 in > > Nachricht <20221110220426.ga17...@numachi.com>: > > > I've managed to hose a SLES12 SP5 host; it starts to boot, then hangs. > > > > And what did you do to mess it up? And what do the boot messages say? > > A good question, and not specific to systemd, so I don't want to > pollute the list archives too much on this matter. > > 'All' I did was remove many RPMs that I arbitrarily deemed > unnecessary. > > I came up with a heavily trimmed-down list of SLES RPM for my SLES12 > Sp5 environment. > > I successfully installed a server using just that trimmed-down list; > yay me! > > I then explored 'upgrading' a running (slight older) SP5 box, using > this trimmed-down list. A purposeful side effect was to uninstall > RPMs not in that trimmed-down list. > > This latter box begins to boot, and gets at least as far as loading > the initrd image, before hanging. > Boot with "systemd.debug-shell" and use tty9 to investigate from the inside. -- Mantas Mikulėnas
Re: [systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] [systemd???devel] starting networking from within single user mode?
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 08:02:00AM +0100, Ulrich Windl wrote: > >>> Brian Reichert schrieb am 10.11.2022 um 23:04 in > Nachricht <20221110220426.ga17...@numachi.com>: > > I've managed to hose a SLES12 SP5 host; it starts to boot, then hangs. > > And what did you do to mess it up? And what do the boot messages say? A good question, and not specific to systemd, so I don't want to pollute the list archives too much on this matter. 'All' I did was remove many RPMs that I arbitrarily deemed unnecessary. I came up with a heavily trimmed-down list of SLES RPM for my SLES12 Sp5 environment. I successfully installed a server using just that trimmed-down list; yay me! I then explored 'upgrading' a running (slight older) SP5 box, using this trimmed-down list. A purposeful side effect was to uninstall RPMs not in that trimmed-down list. This latter box begins to boot, and gets at least as far as loading the initrd image, before hanging. I'm pretty certain there's something mismanaged with replacing the kernel, but not properly managing all of the related boot files (kdump? device probing? etc.) Anyway, that's my mess. Not at all related to systemd, near as I can tell. I just have to methodically narrow down on where my process jumps the tracks. -- Brian Reichert BSD admin/developer at large
[systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] [systemd‑devel] starting networking from within single user mode?
>>> Brian Reichert schrieb am 10.11.2022 um 23:04 in Nachricht <20221110220426.ga17...@numachi.com>: > I've managed to hose a SLES12 SP5 host; it starts to boot, then hangs. And what did you do to mess it up? And what do the boot messages say? > > If I get it into single‑user mode (getting into the grub menu, and adding > init=/bin/bash) I can at least review the file system. > > What I want to do is get networking running, so that I can at least gather > logs, etc. > > When I try to start networking with 'systemctl', I see this error: > > systemd "failed to connect to bus; No such file or directory" > > What can I do to minimally bring up the networking service? I don't even > have any network devices at this point... > > ‑‑ > Brian Reichert > BSD admin/developer at large
