Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
On Wed, 30.07.14 13:21, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html such error messages caused by list all sort of options without any information when they where introduced are really annoying - the docs should clearly say the minimum required systemd version and the more options are added the more important is that Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:10] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectory' in section 'Service' Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:11] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectoryMode' in section 'Service I am a bit conservative about doing this, since it would actually make the man pages much larger if we want this to be comprehensive. Also, I really don't want to litter the normal man pages with so much information about possibly pre-historical versions of systemd. It clutters the view, and makes people assume they would have to care for the old versions all times. I mean, currently many of the pages shipped with the manpages packages contain information about what feature is supported in 1.x kernels or in glibc 2, and stuff. And I really never ever want to be in the business of listing such cruft. What I'd be open to is if we keep this relatively isolated, strictly automatically generated and with a cutoff point where all versions that were released let's say 2y ago are subsumed under a single version. It shouldn't be too hard to write a script that automatically generates something like a minimal version of systemd.directives(7), that is enriched with data from the git history or so, and simply says Since 189 or so, for each of the configuration options. Happy to take a clean patch for something like that. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
On Wed, 30.07.14 14:08, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote: * it's more comfortable to have STRG+F in a webbrowsers less and similar pagers actually have search, simply by pressing /. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
Am 04.08.2014 um 17:09 schrieb Lennart Poettering: On Wed, 30.07.14 13:21, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html such error messages caused by list all sort of options without any information when they where introduced are really annoying - the docs should clearly say the minimum required systemd version and the more options are added the more important is that Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:10] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectory' in section 'Service' Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:11] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectoryMode' in section 'Service I am a bit conservative about doing this, since it would actually make the man pages much larger if we want this to be comprehensive. Also, I really don't want to litter the normal man pages with so much information about possibly pre-historical versions of systemd. It clutters the view, and makes people assume they would have to care for the old versions all times. I mean, currently many of the pages shipped with the manpages packages contain information about what feature is supported in 1.x kernels or in glibc 2, and stuff. And I really never ever want to be in the business of listing such cruft. What I'd be open to is if we keep this relatively isolated, strictly automatically generated and with a cutoff point where all versions that were released let's say 2y ago are subsumed under a single version. It shouldn't be too hard to write a script that automatically generates something like a minimal version of systemd.directives(7), that is enriched with data from the git history or so, and simply says Since 189 or so, for each of the configuration options. Happy to take a clean patch for something like that for Fedora 2 years would be fine to at least find the information if it is in old-stable, stable or Rawhide supported, for users of long supported distributions maybe not keep in mind systemd is now part of RHEL and Debian in the future i don't get why it is cruft to add at the end of the description while someone anyways needs to write it per hand (introduced with systemd-215) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
[systemd-devel] documentation and required version
http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html such error messages caused by list all sort of options without any information when they where introduced are really annoying - the docs should clearly say the minimum required systemd version and the more options are added the more important is that Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:10] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectory' in section 'Service' Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:11] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectoryMode' in section 'Service signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html such error messages caused by list all sort of options without any information when they where introduced are really annoying - the docs should clearly say the minimum required systemd version and the more options are added the more important is that Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:10] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectory' in section 'Service' Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:11] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectoryMode' in section 'Service Won't this be solved by using the man pages shipped with the version of systemd you are using? Cheers, Tom ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
Am 30.07.2014 13:58, schrieb Tom Gundersen: On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html such error messages caused by list all sort of options without any information when they where introduced are really annoying - the docs should clearly say the minimum required systemd version and the more options are added the more important is that Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:10] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectory' in section 'Service' Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:11] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectoryMode' in section 'Service Won't this be solved by using the man pages shipped with the version of systemd you are using? no - for several reasons * it's more comfortable to use a website with working links like http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.kill.html mentioned as example in ExecStop= * it's more comfortable to have STRG+F in a webbrowsers * i currently maintain machines with 204, 208 and 215 having *one* manual open which lists all available options and mention the minimum version of them gives a better picture signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
's On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:08 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 30.07.2014 13:58, schrieb Tom Gundersen: On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html such error messages caused by list all sort of options without any information when they where introduced are really annoying - the docs should clearly say the minimum required systemd version and the more options are added the more important is that Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:10] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectory' in section 'Service' Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:11] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectoryMode' in section 'Service Won't this be solved by using the man pages shipped with the version of systemd you are using? no - for several reasons * it's more comfortable to use a website with working links like http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.kill.html mentioned as example in ExecStop= * it's more comfortable to have STRG+F in a webbrowsers * i currently maintain machines with 204, 208 and 215 having *one* manual open which lists all available options and mention the minimum version of them gives a better picture Tom, I see no reason why having the man page indicate when a given option was introduced be any worse than your suggestion. Since the online man page better be the latest one, if it stated when each option was introduced Reindl can use the online page as he wants and those who want to use the man page in their computers can do the same. Everyone wins. ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 01:58:51PM +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html such error messages caused by list all sort of options without any information when they where introduced are really annoying - the docs should clearly say the minimum required systemd version and the more options are added the more important is that Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:10] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectory' in section 'Service' Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:11] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectoryMode' in section 'Service Won't this be solved by using the man pages shipped with the version of systemd you are using? Sure, this works when you need to figure out if your current systemd supports a directive. It doesn't work for the quasi-inverse question -- given a directive, what version of systemd do I need to support this? For people who don't run the latest and greatest all the time, I can understand why this might be valuable. Maybe there's some way of using git history of the gperf files to compile a systemd.availability manpage (similar to systemd.directives). d ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 08:32:44AM -0400, Mauricio Tavares wrote: 's On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:08 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 30.07.2014 13:58, schrieb Tom Gundersen: On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html such error messages caused by list all sort of options without any information when they where introduced are really annoying - the docs should clearly say the minimum required systemd version and the more options are added the more important is that Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:10] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectory' in section 'Service' Jul 30 13:17:09 rh systemd[1]: [/usr/lib/systemd/system/mysqld.service:11] Unknown lvalue 'RuntimeDirectoryMode' in section 'Service Won't this be solved by using the man pages shipped with the version of systemd you are using? no - for several reasons * it's more comfortable to use a website with working links like http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.kill.html mentioned as example in ExecStop= * it's more comfortable to have STRG+F in a webbrowsers * i currently maintain machines with 204, 208 and 215 having *one* manual open which lists all available options and mention the minimum version of them gives a better picture Tom, I see no reason why having the man page indicate when a given option was introduced be any worse than your suggestion. Since the online man page better be the latest one, if it stated when each option was introduced Reindl can use the online page as he wants and those who want to use the man page in their computers can do the same. Everyone wins. Some of our man pages in section 3 partially have history, see e.g. [1]. I think having such information is very useful, but keeping it accurate is harder then it might seem at first. For example look at SocketUser/SocketGroup settings. They were added in systemd-214, but then were backported to 208-stable and 204-stable, and appeared in Fedora in a 204 update has Fedora 19 has been out for more than an a year [2]. It turns out that in this case man pages distributed with the system are a more accurate source of information then anything that could be included by upstream. So I'd be happy to merge patches which judiciously add history for manpages which describe API changes (i.e. section 3), but in general I don't think we have the man power to fully describe full history of all settings in systemd. Zbyszek [1] http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sd_journal_open.html#History [2] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2014-8761/systemd-204-20.fc19 ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
Re: [systemd-devel] documentation and required version
Am 30.07.2014 17:31, schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek: Some of our man pages in section 3 partially have history, see e.g. [1]. I think having such information is very useful, but keeping it accurate is harder then it might seem at first. For example look at SocketUser/SocketGroup settings. They were added in systemd-214, but then were backported to 208-stable and 204-stable, and appeared in Fedora in a 204 update has Fedora 19 has been out for more than an a year [2] the distribution backports don't matter in that context the important information is feature sounds cool, what systemd version do i need at least with that i know how how my plans have do look like - grab if there is a backport is a different story, users need to know works on F20, F21 but not on F19 and RHEL7 options introduced with 208 as example are considered for my own rpm packages after the last machine is on F20 and if PrivateDevices would be available on F20 i would even give priority the F20 migration of our infrastructure It turns out that in this case man pages distributed with the system are a more accurate source of information then anything that could be included by upstream. So I'd be happy to merge patches which judiciously add history for manpages which describe API changes (i.e. section 3), but in general I don't think we have the man power to fully describe full history of all settings in systemd wrong way around - don't think that complicated somebody wrote that text below, see my fixed version at the end *now* it is a mess and likely nobody will be able to fix the past *but* for new options Introduced with systemd-XXX would be a no-brainer _ RuntimeDirectory=, RuntimeDirectoryMode= Takes a list of directory names. If set, one or more directories by the specified names will be created below /run (for system services) or below $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR (for user services) when the unit is started, and removed when the unit is stopped. The directories will have the access mode specified in RuntimeDirectoryMode=, and will be owned by the user and group specified in User= and Group=. Use this to manage one or more runtime directories of the unit and bind their lifetime to the daemon runtime. The specified directory names must be relative, and may not include a /, i.e. must refer to simple directories to create or remove. This is particularly useful for unprivileged daemons that cannot create runtime directories in /run due to lack of privileges, and to make sure the runtime directory is cleaned up automatically after use. For runtime directories that require more complex or different configuration or lifetime guarantees, please consider using tmpfiles.d(5). Introduced with systemd-214 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ systemd-devel mailing list systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
