Re: [systemd-devel] [EXT] Re: Udev rules for hardware speech synths

2026-03-04 Thread Feli Flitzberg 
Video cards, to my recollection, are plugged directly into the motherboard, and 
have initial activation by the bootloader. I'm not sure how USB ports are 
activated by bootloaders, but I know there's enough to use a keyboard and boot 
from USB drives... what if you get the bootloader to start the synth?

Most distros use GRUB, and systemd can build its own bootloader if the 
requirements are met. Those might be where we should actually start.

Feli Flitzberg

 Original Message 
On Wednesday, 03/04/26 at 12:54 John G. Heim  wrote:

> The Speakup modules are part of the official Linux kernel source tree and are 
> built along with the kernel. That means they're not external (I think). Right?
>
> I do not think this can represent a security risk because all you need to do 
> to get speech is to load a kernel module that's already in the kernel source 
> code. I cannot speak to the security of the modules themselves but 
> presumably, that's already been satisfied or they wouldn't be part of the 
> kernel source code.
>
> The kernel has to recognize your video card and load the appropriate module, 
> right? Surely, modules for all possible video cards aren't compiled into the 
> kernel. I think there is even some mechanism for it to know if there's a 
> monitor connected to the video card. What we need, if possible, is an 
> analogous process to recognize hardware speech synths.
>
> On 3/4/26 11:19 AM, Feli Flitzberg wrote:
>
>> For my two cents: it appears to me that most of the pushback relates to the 
>> kernel mod. If that kernel mod is external, other admins think it's an 
>> inherent security risk. If it just needs to be loaded, they're likely 
>> assuming there's a security risk from loading a new mod and potentially 
>> extra software to support a "fringe"/"niche" accessibility situation.
>>
>> However, if it's a thought of security, they should say it out loud, not as 
>> a rude half-comment or as hand-wringing over which project implements it. 
>> It's a single udev rule, systemd has precedent for including udev rules, and 
>> it only triggers *when the synth is plugged in*. Why not just make a pull 
>> request that includes the rule? Then if it's really not accepted, make pull 
>> requests to distros instead.
>>
>> There's my cents, good luck with whatever you do!
>>
>> Feli Flitzberg
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> On Wednesday, 03/04/26 at 09:59 Barry Scott  wrote:
>>
 On 4 Mar 2026, at 16:22, John G. Heim  wrote:

 It's no different than a monitor.

 I am a little disappointed by the amount of pushback I'm getting on this. 
 What if you had to log in and load a kernel module to get your monitor to 
 work? You're a server admin, you go into the server room to look at a down 
 server. You plug in a monitor and it's just blank. You have to log in and 
 type in a commend -- with the monitor blank -- to get started. Of course, 
 if the machine isn't even at the login prompt, and it's probably not, just 
 trying to blindly type in your login credentials isn't going to do 
 anything.

 This is real life for a blind systems admin or systems engineer. People's 
 jobs depend on this. This is how I put food on the table for my entire 
 career.

 Instead of thinking up reasons to *not* do it, how about if we try to 
 figure out ways to get it done?
>>>
>>> I agree this is a real life issue.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if systemd or the distros are best placed to solve this issue.
>>>
>>> You might find that asking the distros to add the udev rule would work to 
>>> get this going.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
 On 3/4/26 1:59 AM, Windl, Ulrich wrote:

> …unless some other admin considers that to be a security risk…
>
> Kind regards,
> Ulrich Windl
>
> From:systemd-devel[](mailto:[email protected])On
>  Behalf OfJohn G. Heim
> Sent:Wednesday, February 25, 2026 11:26 PM
> To:Adrian Vovk[](mailto:[email protected])
> Cc:[email protected]
> Subject:[EXT] Re: [systemd-devel] Udev rules for hardware speech synths
>
> [Windl, Ulrich] (…)
>
> If we can get the kernel to recognize hardware speech synths, a blind 
> systems engineer will be able to walk up to any Linux server, plug in his 
> hardware synth, and listen to it boot.
>
> [Windl, Ulrich] (…)

Re: [systemd-devel] [EXT] Re: Udev rules for hardware speech synths

2026-03-04 Thread John G. Heim 
The Speakup  modules are part of the official Linux kernel source tree 
and are built along with the kernel. That means they're not external (I 
think). Right?


I do not think this can represent a security risk because all you need  
to do to get speech is to load a kernel module that's already  in the 
kernel source code.  I cannot speak to the security of the modules 
themselves but presumably, that's already been satisfied or they 
wouldn't be part of the kernel source code.


The kernel has to recognize your video card and load the appropriate 
module, right? Surely, modules for all possible video cards aren't 
compiled into the kernel.  I think there is even some mechanism for it 
to know if there's a monitor connected to the video card. What we need, 
if possible, is an analogous process to recognize hardware speech synths.



On 3/4/26 11:19 AM, Feli Flitzberg wrote:
For my two cents: it appears to me that most of the pushback relates 
to the kernel mod. If that kernel mod is external, other admins think 
it's an inherent security risk. If it just needs to be loaded, they're 
likely assuming there's a security risk from loading a new mod and 
potentially extra software to support a "fringe"/"niche" accessibility 
situation.


However, if it's a thought of security, they should say it out loud, 
not as a rude half-comment or as hand-wringing over which project 
implements it. It's a single udev rule, systemd has precedent for 
including udev rules, and it only triggers *when the synth is plugged 
in*. Why not just make a pull request that includes the rule? Then if 
it's really not accepted, make pull requests to distros instead.


There's my cents, good luck with whatever you do!

Feli Flitzberg


 Original Message 
On Wednesday, 03/04/26 at 09:59 Barry Scott  
wrote:





On 4 Mar 2026, at 16:22, John G. Heim  wrote:

It's no different than a monitor.

I am a little disappointed by the amount of pushback I'm getting
on this. What if you had to log in and load a kernel module to
get your monitor to work? You're a server admin, you go into the
server room to look at a down server. You  plug in a monitor and
it's just blank. You have to log in and type in a commend -- with
the monitor blank -- to get started. Of course, if the machine
isn't even  at the login prompt, and it's probably not, just
trying to blindly type in your login credentials isn't going to
do  anything.

This is real life for a blind systems admin or systems engineer.
People's jobs depend on this. This is how I put food on the table
for my entire career.

Instead of thinking up reasons to *not* do it, how about if we
try to figure out ways to get it done?


I agree this is a real life issue.

I'm not sure if systemd or the distros are best placed to solve
this issue.

You might find that asking the distros to add the udev rule would
work to get this going.

Barry







On 3/4/26 1:59 AM, Windl, Ulrich wrote:

…unless some other admin considers that to be a security risk…
Kind regards,
Ulrich Windl
*From:*systemd-devel*On
Behalf Of*John G. Heim
*Sent:*Wednesday, February 25, 2026 11:26 PM
*To:*Adrian Vovk
*Cc:*[email protected]
*Subject:*[EXT] Re: [systemd-devel] Udev rules for hardware
speech synths
*/[Windl, Ulrich] (…)/*

If we can get the kernel to recognize hardware speech synths,  a
blind systems engineer will be able to walk up to any Linux
server, plug in his hardware synth, and listen to it boot.

*/[Windl, Ulrich] (…)/*

Re: [systemd-devel] [EXT] Re: Udev rules for hardware speech synths

2026-03-04 Thread Feli Flitzberg 
For my two cents: it appears to me that most of the pushback relates to the 
kernel mod. If that kernel mod is external, other admins think it's an inherent 
security risk. If it just needs to be loaded, they're likely assuming there's a 
security risk from loading a new mod and potentially extra software to support 
a "fringe"/"niche" accessibility situation.

However, if it's a thought of security, they should say it out loud, not as a 
rude half-comment or as hand-wringing over which project implements it. It's a 
single udev rule, systemd has precedent for including udev rules, and it only 
triggers *when the synth is plugged in*. Why not just make a pull request that 
includes the rule? Then if it's really not accepted, make pull requests to 
distros instead.

There's my cents, good luck with whatever you do!

Feli Flitzberg

https://proton.me/mail/home

 Original Message 
On Wednesday, 03/04/26 at 09:59 Barry Scott  wrote:

>> On 4 Mar 2026, at 16:22, John G. Heim  wrote:
>>
>> It's no different than a monitor.
>>
>> I am a little disappointed by the amount of pushback I'm getting on this. 
>> What if you had to log in and load a kernel module to get your monitor to 
>> work? You're a server admin, you go into the server room to look at a down 
>> server. You plug in a monitor and it's just blank. You have to log in and 
>> type in a commend -- with the monitor blank -- to get started. Of course, if 
>> the machine isn't even at the login prompt, and it's probably not, just 
>> trying to blindly type in your login credentials isn't going to do anything.
>>
>> This is real life for a blind systems admin or systems engineer. People's 
>> jobs depend on this. This is how I put food on the table for my entire 
>> career.
>>
>> Instead of thinking up reasons to *not* do it, how about if we try to figure 
>> out ways to get it done?
>
> I agree this is a real life issue.
>
> I'm not sure if systemd or the distros are best placed to solve this issue.
>
> You might find that asking the distros to add the udev rule would work to get 
> this going.
>
> Barry
>
>> On 3/4/26 1:59 AM, Windl, Ulrich wrote:
>>
>>> …unless some other admin considers that to be a security risk…
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Ulrich Windl
>>>
>>> From:systemd-devel[](mailto:[email protected])On
>>>  Behalf OfJohn G. Heim
>>> Sent:Wednesday, February 25, 2026 11:26 PM
>>> To:Adrian Vovk[](mailto:[email protected])
>>> Cc:[email protected]
>>> Subject:[EXT] Re: [systemd-devel] Udev rules for hardware speech synths
>>>
>>> [Windl, Ulrich] (…)
>>>
>>> If we can get the kernel to recognize hardware speech synths, a blind 
>>> systems engineer will be able to walk up to any Linux server, plug in his 
>>> hardware synth, and listen to it boot.
>>>
>>> [Windl, Ulrich] (…)

Re: [systemd-devel] [EXT] Re: Udev rules for hardware speech synths

2026-03-04 Thread Barry Scott 


> On 4 Mar 2026, at 16:22, John G. Heim  wrote:
> 
> It's no different than a monitor. 
> 
> I am a little disappointed by the amount of pushback I'm getting on this. 
> What if you had to log in and load a kernel module to get your monitor to 
> work? You're a server admin, you go into the server room to look at a down 
> server. You  plug in a monitor and it's just blank. You have to log in and 
> type in a commend -- with the monitor blank -- to get started. Of course, if 
> the machine isn't even  at the login prompt, and it's probably not, just 
> trying to blindly type in your login credentials isn't going to do  anything.
> 
> This is real life for a blind systems admin or systems engineer. People's 
> jobs depend on this. This is how I put food on the table for my entire career.
> 
> Instead of thinking up reasons to *not* do it, how about if we try to figure 
> out ways to get it done?
> 
I agree this is a real life issue.

I'm not sure if systemd or the distros are best placed to solve this issue.

You might find that asking the distros to add the udev rule would work to get 
this going.

Barry


> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/4/26 1:59 AM, Windl, Ulrich wrote:
>> …unless some other admin considers that to be a security risk…
>>  
>> Kind regards,
>> Ulrich Windl
>> From: systemd-devel  
>>  On Behalf Of John G. 
>> Heim
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2026 11:26 PM
>> To: Adrian Vovk  
>> Cc: [email protected] 
>> 
>> Subject: [EXT] Re: [systemd-devel] Udev rules for hardware speech synths
>>  
>> [Windl, Ulrich] (…)
>> If we can get the kernel to recognize hardware speech synths,  a blind 
>> systems engineer will be able to walk up to any Linux server, plug in his 
>> hardware synth, and listen to it boot.
>> 
>> [Windl, Ulrich] (…)
>>

Re: [systemd-devel] [EXT] Re: Udev rules for hardware speech synths

2026-03-04 Thread John G. Heim 

It's no different than a monitor.

I am a little disappointed by the amount of pushback I'm getting on 
this. What if you had to log in and load a kernel module to get your 
monitor to work? You're a server admin, you go into the server room to 
look at a down server. You  plug in a monitor and it's just blank. You 
have to log in and type in a commend -- with the monitor blank -- to get 
started. Of course, if the machine isn't even  at the login prompt, and 
it's probably not, just trying to blindly type in your login credentials 
isn't going to do  anything.


This is real life for a blind systems admin or systems engineer. 
People's jobs depend on this. This is how I put food on the table for my 
entire career.


Instead of thinking up reasons to *not* do it, how about if we try to 
figure out ways to get it done?






On 3/4/26 1:59 AM, Windl, Ulrich wrote:


…unless some other admin considers that to be a security risk…

Kind regards,

Ulrich Windl

*From:*systemd-devel  *On 
Behalf Of *John G. Heim

*Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2026 11:26 PM
*To:* Adrian Vovk 
*Cc:* [email protected]
*Subject:* [EXT] Re: [systemd-devel] Udev rules for hardware speech synths

*/[Windl, Ulrich] (…)/*

If we can get the kernel to recognize hardware speech synths,  a blind 
systems engineer will be able to walk up to any Linux server, plug in 
his hardware synth, and listen to it boot.


*/[Windl, Ulrich] (…)/*

Re: [systemd-devel] [EXT] Re: Udev rules for hardware speech synths

2026-03-03 Thread Windl, Ulrich 
…unless some other admin considers that to be a security risk…

Kind regards,
Ulrich Windl
From: systemd-devel  On Behalf Of 
John G. Heim
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2026 11:26 PM
To: Adrian Vovk 
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: [EXT] Re: [systemd-devel] Udev rules for hardware speech synths

[Windl, Ulrich] (…)

If we can get the kernel to recognize hardware speech synths,  a blind systems 
engineer will be able to walk up to any Linux server, plug in his hardware 
synth, and listen to it boot.

[Windl, Ulrich] (…)