Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Dan Kaplan
That's a very timely article. Doesn't do much about the overall drug situation, but at least it alleviates a few obvious inconsistencies (if it passes). > "We cannot look retroactively at what has happened in the past," > Ljungqvist said. "The list in existence is the one you have to > observe.

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Dan Kaplan
--- edndana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > VERY few average people consume enough caffeine to > reach the banned level on a regular basis. 5 cups a coffee a day? I know quite a few people that consume that much regularly, and I don't exactly hang out in coffee drinking circles. > And certainly peo

Re: t-and-f: Olympic Trials "B" Standards

2003-09-17 Thread nad wilson
thats strange, in the 1500 the B is 3:43.00, hardly a tough standard. In 2000 it was 3:40.5, a much harder time to hit.  Also in 2000, if you hit the B you were automatically excepted which is different than normal USATF meets where the B is more of a provisional thing.  What will they do next yea

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread John Liccardo
Perhaps I'm behind the times on this one, but has anyone used the drug records from the East Germans to do a real, scientific study (not the anecdotal stuff) of the efffects of long term use on the athletes? It would be interesting to see the real health problems, and how frequent the problems

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread edndana
> Probably not, but if it were shown to be safe, would we be any worse off > than we are now? Just throwing ideas out there. Some may work, some may > not, but we've already got a system that's as close to a disaster as > possible. Hard not to improve on it with wholesale changes. You have to s

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Kurt Bray
Steroids are used throughout the medical profession. They obviously aren't all bad, so if health were the only reason behind drug rules, why not regulate steroid protocols that could make healthier athletes? Like all drugs, steroids are partly good and partly bad. They have therapeutic effects

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Dan Kaplan
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>Steroids are used throughout the medical profession. They > >>obviously aren't all bad, > > Did you read my post completely? Just wondering... Yes. Which part are you thinking I missed? If it was the political analogy, I didn't respond to it because I couldn't

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Martin J. Dixon
Sudafed-that amazes me. I was talking to a reasonably good masters age group swimmer and he told me he was on the stuff for a cold and was doing repeat 100s about 5 seconds faster than normal and wasn't getting tired. His doctor is in the same club and he said to him how great he felt and why woul

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread edndana
VERY few average people consume enough caffeine to reach the banned level on a regular basis. And certainly people who do consume that much have potential health effects. And doctors using steriods are aware of the potential side effects - it's a question of whether the risks of taking outweigh t

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Philip_Ponebshek
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I'm sorry - is there a question over whether this is a health issue? >>Steroids are used throughout the medical profession. They >>obviously aren't all bad, Did you read my post completely? Just wondering... >>so if health were the only reason behind drug >

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Philip_Ponebshek
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I'm sorry - is there a question over whether this is a health issue? Dan replied: >Yes, most definitely. There is a health component to it, of course, but >that seems to be more of a justification for some underlying moral >objection. Take caffeine, for exa

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Dan Kaplan
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm sorry - is there a question over whether this is a health issue? Yes, most definitely. There is a health component to it, of course, but that seems to be more of a justification for some underlying moral objection. Take caffeine, for example. Who's health is b

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Philip_Ponebshek
Following the thread: >> Is there in fact general agreement that it's not a health issue >> and it's not a moral issue? What kind of an issue is it? >That's just it, there's no clear definition of what sort of issue it is. >"It's wrong" seems the best attempt made thus far. I'm sorry - is

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Martin J. Dixon
Getting WAY off topic here but if there would have been no disagreement about slavery, there likely would have been no war. To the politicians, it was all about slavery but there is no way they would have been able to convince the citizenry to fight on that basis. There is no question however that

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Michael Bartolina
Check your revisionist history books. Slavery was ended in the south because it was economically advantageous to the North. The civil war had as much to do with slavery as Michael Jordan's Nikes did with winning 5 rings. The only way to end drug use would be if it were economically advantageous

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Dan Kaplan
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Slavery was pretty "embedded" as a fact of life in the South before > the Civil War, and the "feasability" of changing it was low--very > low--nearly impossible (most would have said)--but it was finally > changed because a small group of passionate people felt commit

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread Martin J. Dixon
That depends on whose ox is being gored. I'd say it is either a moral or legal issue depending on that. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Is there in fact general agreement that it's not a health issue and it's not a moral > issue? What kind of an issue is it? > > Mitch > >

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

2003-09-17 Thread MOrfuss
Slavery was pretty "embedded" as a fact of life in the South before the Civil War, and the "feasability" of changing it was low--very low--nearly impossible (most would have said)--but it was finally changed because a small group of passionate people felt committed to what they believed was righ