Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities

2011-02-24 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Samat K Jain li...@samat.org wrote:
 Once/if the RFC passes… I'd say a site relation[1] tagged place=locality, 
 name=Tri-Cities? That's assuming Tri-Cities doesn't have some kind of 
 government body associated with it.

  [1]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Site

That doesn't sound like a site relation to me, but rather some kind of
administrative relation. There must be thousands of these kinds of
groupings around the place. France has lots of these
intercommunalities - perhaps they'd also qualify. In Australia, we
have paired cities like Albury-Wodonga.

Steve

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Re: [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads

2011-02-24 Thread Greg Troxel

Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com writes:

 In the US there are two long federally-maintained roads, the Blue
 Ridge Parkway and Natchez Trace Parkway, that were built for the sole
 purpose of sightseeing. Since they are surrounded by a narrow strip of
 parkland, access is only allowed at certain points, so they are
 technically expressways (normally trunk in the US). On the other hand,
 they are not intended in any way for utilitarian travel, and
 functionally fit approximately as secondary or tertiary.

 Tagging is thus inconsistent. It looks like the BRP was recently all
 changed to secondary, but the NTP has portions of residential (obvious
 BS) and primary. I'm pretty sure I've also seen trunk and tertiary
 used in the past.

They probably should be secondary, as that conveys the right impression.

On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging
of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum)
and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been
on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent
lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-)

  http://osm.org/go/ZfI4nILQ-



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Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities

2011-02-24 Thread McGuire, Matthew

Without knowing the area, I can only speculate that Tri-Cities is a locally 
common name for the entire metro, but assuming it is, I like the way it looks 
on Mapnik, so it seems like a case of tagging for the renderer. How about 
place=metro?

More could be done with metro areas. For example, OSM Mapnik renders the Saint 
Paul label at a 'higher' level than Minneapolis. Is there some way to identify 
Minneapolis as the largest city of the metro area and Saint Paul as the Capitol 
of the State of Minnesota? I don't see anything in the Map Features tags that 
would allow this. Locally, the entire metro area is frequently known as The 
Twin Cities, and together Minneapolis and Saint Paul are a primate city.

I don't know of a way to represent (data-wise) the metro areas as one single 
place. The result is, I'm now looking at a map with labels for Trenton, 
Wilmington, Newark, Huntington NY, and Stamford CT but not New York City and 
Philadelphia.  A place=metro tag and relations would allow that - if the 
renderer so chose.

Matt



-Original Message-
From: Nathan Edgars II [mailto:nerou...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:07 PM
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools; OpenStreetMap talk-us list
Subject: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/876536239
There's no city named Tri-Cities; this is the name of the metropolitan
area that comprises Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland. I assume there's no
defensible reason to keep it tagged as such, but what should be done
about it?

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Re: [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads

2011-02-24 Thread Nathan Edgars II

On 2/24/2011 8:18 AM, Greg Troxel wrote:

On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging
of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum)
and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been
on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent
lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-)

   http://osm.org/go/ZfI4nILQ-



I have been on Route 2 there, and it goes nowhere near the Science 
Museum. Memorial Drive etc. is trunk as in more major than primary.


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Re: [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads

2011-02-24 Thread Greg Troxel

Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com writes:

 On 2/24/2011 8:18 AM, Greg Troxel wrote:
 On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging
 of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum)
 and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been
 on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent
 lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-)

 Memorial Drive etc. is trunk as in more major than primary.

That's not what trunk means - it's supposed to have significant motorway
features, like some degree of limited access, very few lights, and very
few at-grade intersections.  There are bits of Memorial Drive that begin
to approach that, but certainly the area around Alewife is no where
close, and arguably none of it does.

Also, it isn't more important than a US highway.  It's a local commuting
road, and hardly ever used for long-distance travel.


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[Tagging] Let's put more wikipedia-tags in OSM WAS Re: [OSM-dev] Some Questions about the Collaboration of OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia

2011-02-24 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/2/24 Zhijie Shen zjshe...@gmail.com:
 I'm student who is currently working on using OpenStreetMap to facilitate
 our project. Now I want to retrieve Wikipedia entry from OpenStreetMap to
 fertilize the data source for our project. To do this, I crawled OSM data,
 and found there are few wikipedia tags in my test region... I guess that the 
 wikipedia entry on
 OpenStreetMap is added manually. Am I correct?


Yes, they are added manually. If you wanted to put them on the map
without reference to an OSM-Object you could simply take the
coordinates that wikipedia gives you for geotagged articles and
display them as an overlay. We cannot (AFAIK) import those coordinates
into OSM because we believe that they were mainly created from
Googlemaps hence constitute a derived database [1].

Today I was looking at some places (countries, states and cities) and
found that despite some wikipedia links most of them are actually
missing.

I invite everybody to look in his region for features (not only
place-features) to see, if they are already linked to wikipedia. In
case they are not I suggest to add a tag in the form:
wikipedia=language-code:article-name
as suggested here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia

e.g.
wikipedia=en:London
or
wikipedia=it:Hong_Kong

(copy the value from the URL to avoid typos).

It is generally sufficient to add 1 wikipedia-tag for one language, as
all the others can be fetched from the interlanguage links Wikipedia
is offering. Only in rare cases there might be need for additional
tags for different languages (in cases where the wikipedia structure
for different languages is differing, e.g. some languages have a
specific article, in other languages the same feature is described
inside the article of another thing).

cheers,
Martin

PS: This would also make a beautiful project of the month...

[1] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipedia#Importing_geodata_from_Wikipedia

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Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Let's put more wikipedia-tags in OSM WAS Re: [OSM-dev] Some Questions about the Collaboration of OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia

2011-02-24 Thread Josh Doe
First thing I thought of when I read this is how we could really
benefit from UUIDs [1]. If we had those, and tagged OSM elements,
Wikipedia articles, and Flickr/Picasa/etc images, and who knows what
else, life would be so much better. :)

There's some good discussion on this page [1].

But yes, more Wikipedia links, one way or another!

-Josh

[1]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/UUID

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 12:16 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 2011/2/24 Zhijie Shen zjshe...@gmail.com:
 I'm student who is currently working on using OpenStreetMap to facilitate
 our project. Now I want to retrieve Wikipedia entry from OpenStreetMap to
 fertilize the data source for our project. To do this, I crawled OSM data,
 and found there are few wikipedia tags in my test region... I guess that the 
 wikipedia entry on
 OpenStreetMap is added manually. Am I correct?


 Yes, they are added manually. If you wanted to put them on the map
 without reference to an OSM-Object you could simply take the
 coordinates that wikipedia gives you for geotagged articles and
 display them as an overlay. We cannot (AFAIK) import those coordinates
 into OSM because we believe that they were mainly created from
 Googlemaps hence constitute a derived database [1].

 Today I was looking at some places (countries, states and cities) and
 found that despite some wikipedia links most of them are actually
 missing.

 I invite everybody to look in his region for features (not only
 place-features) to see, if they are already linked to wikipedia. In
 case they are not I suggest to add a tag in the form:
 wikipedia=language-code:article-name
 as suggested here:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia

 e.g.
 wikipedia=en:London
 or
 wikipedia=it:Hong_Kong

 (copy the value from the URL to avoid typos).

 It is generally sufficient to add 1 wikipedia-tag for one language, as
 all the others can be fetched from the interlanguage links Wikipedia
 is offering. Only in rare cases there might be need for additional
 tags for different languages (in cases where the wikipedia structure
 for different languages is differing, e.g. some languages have a
 specific article, in other languages the same feature is described
 inside the article of another thing).

 cheers,
 Martin

 PS: This would also make a beautiful project of the month...

 [1] 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipedia#Importing_geodata_from_Wikipedia

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Re: [Tagging] [OSM-dev] Let's put more wikipedia-tags in OSM WAS Re: Some Questions about the Collaboration of OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia

2011-02-24 Thread Samat K Jain
On Thursday, February 24, 2011 10:16:22 AM M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:
 I invite everybody to look in his region for features (not only
 place-features) to see, if they are already linked to wikipedia. In
 case they are not I suggest to add a tag in the form:
 wikipedia=language-code:article-name
 as suggested here:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia
 
 e.g.
 wikipedia=en:London
 or
 wikipedia=it:Hong_Kong

AFAIK, do *NOT* include underscores in the key name… as is mentioned on the 
aforementioned wiki page.

E.g. that should be:

wikipedia=it:Hong Kong

-- 
Samat K Jain http://samat.org/ | GPG: 0x4A456FBA

A fractal is by definition a set for which the Hausdorff Besicovitch dimension 
strictly exceeds the topological dimension.
-- Mandelbrot, The Fractal Geometry of Nature (402)


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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Tree rows

2011-02-24 Thread Tobias Knerr
Please voice your opinion in the vote on the Tree rows proposal:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tree_rows

natural=tree_row, used on a way, describes a line of trees.

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Re: [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads

2011-02-24 Thread Paul Johnson
On 02/24/2011 07:18 AM, Greg Troxel wrote:
 
 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com writes:
 
 In the US there are two long federally-maintained roads, the Blue
 Ridge Parkway and Natchez Trace Parkway, that were built for the sole
 purpose of sightseeing. Since they are surrounded by a narrow strip of
 parkland, access is only allowed at certain points, so they are
 technically expressways (normally trunk in the US). On the other hand,
 they are not intended in any way for utilitarian travel, and
 functionally fit approximately as secondary or tertiary.

 Tagging is thus inconsistent. It looks like the BRP was recently all
 changed to secondary, but the NTP has portions of residential (obvious
 BS) and primary. I'm pretty sure I've also seen trunk and tertiary
 used in the past.
 
 They probably should be secondary, as that conveys the right impression.
 
 On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging
 of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum)
 and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been
 on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent
 lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-)
 
   http://osm.org/go/ZfI4nILQ-

Looks primary at best, possibly secondary.  Trunk is entirely
inappropriate because it's not even close to being a freeway with
intersections.



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Re: [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads

2011-02-24 Thread Paul Johnson
On 02/24/2011 11:30 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:

 That's not what trunk means - it's supposed to have significant motorway
 features, like some degree of limited access, very few lights, and very
 few at-grade intersections.  There are bits of Memorial Drive that begin
 to approach that, but certainly the area around Alewife is no where
 close, and arguably none of it does.
 
 That's *one* thing trunk means. Trunk is also used as a higher
 classification than primary.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Trunk



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Re: [Tagging] Let's put more wikipedia-tags in OSM WAS Re: [OSM-dev] Some Questions about the Collaboration of OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia

2011-02-24 Thread Zhijie Shen
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 1:16 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 2011/2/24 Zhijie Shen zjshe...@gmail.com:
  I'm student who is currently working on using OpenStreetMap to facilitate
  our project. Now I want to retrieve Wikipedia entry from OpenStreetMap to
  fertilize the data source for our project. To do this, I crawled OSM
 data,
  and found there are few wikipedia tags in my test region... I guess that
 the wikipedia entry on
  OpenStreetMap is added manually. Am I correct?


 Yes, they are added manually. If you wanted to put them on the map
 without reference to an OSM-Object you could simply take the
 coordinates that wikipedia gives you for geotagged articles and
 display them as an overlay. We cannot (AFAIK) import those coordinates
 into OSM because we believe that they were mainly created from
 Googlemaps hence constitute a derived database [1].

If I have the geotagged articles, I can display it on OSM. However, my
computation logic is that during parsing the OSM data, the wikipedia entries
of the corresponding entities (e.g., node, way) should be crawled if they
exist. The problem is that many entities have the corresponding wikipedia
entries, but the wikipedia tags haven't been added in the OSM data. Hence
only relying on wikipedia tags may overlook much potential knowledge.

Yes, I agree the coordinates cannot be directly imported into OSM,
otherwise, some inconsistence issues may occur.


 Today I was looking at some places (countries, states and cities) and
 found that despite some wikipedia links most of them are actually
 missing.

 I invite everybody to look in his region for features (not only
 place-features) to see, if they are already linked to wikipedia. In
 case they are not I suggest to add a tag in the form:
 wikipedia=language-code:article-name
 as suggested here:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia

 e.g.
 wikipedia=en:London
 or
 wikipedia=it:Hong_Kong

 (copy the value from the URL to avoid typos).

 It is generally sufficient to add 1 wikipedia-tag for one language, as
 all the others can be fetched from the interlanguage links Wikipedia
 is offering. Only in rare cases there might be need for additional
 tags for different languages (in cases where the wikipedia structure
 for different languages is differing, e.g. some languages have a
 specific article, in other languages the same feature is described
 inside the article of another thing).

In addition to manual editing by contributors, I'm also thinking about
creating wikipedia tags or retrieving wikipedia entries automatically by
analyzing the information from the current OSM data.


 cheers,
 Martin

 PS: This would also make a beautiful project of the month...

 [1]
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipedia#Importing_geodata_from_Wikipedia




-- 
Zhijie Shen
School of Computing
National University of Singapore
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/%7Ez-shen/
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[Tagging] Boundaries for suburbs

2011-02-24 Thread Tyler Gunn
What is the proper way to tag a boundary for a suburb?  I'm trying to avoid 
using place=suburb nodes as they don't accurately capture the boundaries of 
the neighbourhoods I'm attempting to map.

I've been playing around with this in my area and came up with two examples:

Example One:
- place=suburb node central to neighborhood:  
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1168219909
- Boundary relation with the the place node marked as a label: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1438874; included the place 
attributes on the boundary as well.  Not sure if required.

An example of how I've attempted this is as follows.  At this zoom level, 
Mapnik correctly renders a label for the suburb, 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.80617lon=-97.18193zoom=16layers=M
Zooming in once more reveals TWO labels for the area:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.80617lon=-97.18193zoom=17layers=M
See above links for the node and relation in my example.
It's clear that when you zoom in the larger label is from the place node, and 
the smaller one is from the boundary itself.
Mapnik seems to render appropriately.

Example Two:
Another attempt I made used the scheme:
- label node central to the neighborhood: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/499644122
- Boundary relation with just administrative level stuff in it: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1438875
Here you can see that the neighborhood label renders much smaller
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.81031lon=-97.16204zoom=15layers=M 


I'm inclined to think that example Two is more correct, but I have to say I 
like the larger more prominent labels of Example One.  I know, probably not 
good to map for the renderer.

Opinions are appreciated!

THanks!
Tyler

--
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ty...@egunn.com
http://www.egunn.com/




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Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Let's put more wikipedia-tags in OSM WAS Re: [OSM-dev] Some Questions about the Collaboration of OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia

2011-02-24 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com wrote:
 First thing I thought of when I read this is how we could really
 benefit from UUIDs [1]. If we had those, and tagged OSM elements,
 Wikipedia articles, and Flickr/Picasa/etc images, and who knows what
 else, life would be so much better. :)

Yeah. I've done a bit of linking from Wikipedia articles to relation
IDs, but I'm reluctant to do too much due to the fragility of IDs.

Still, it gives a good result - you get a link to *the bike path*, not
to some random point along it.

Steve

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Re: [Tagging] Boundaries for suburbs

2011-02-24 Thread Josh Doe
I am interest in knowing the best way to do this as well. I'm working
on mapping my area, which is called Burke Centre, which is further
divided into five neighborhoods, and those are broken down into a
further 65 clusters. The one cluster I've labeled is just a way:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/98921468

I didn't even think to give it a place tag!

Sorry, not much feedback to give, but interest in others opinions!

-Josh

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Tyler Gunn ty...@egunn.com wrote:
 What is the proper way to tag a boundary for a suburb?  I'm trying to avoid 
 using place=suburb nodes as they don't accurately capture the boundaries of 
 the neighbourhoods I'm attempting to map.

 I've been playing around with this in my area and came up with two examples:

 Example One:
 - place=suburb node central to neighborhood:  
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1168219909
 - Boundary relation with the the place node marked as a label: 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1438874; included the place 
 attributes on the boundary as well.  Not sure if required.

 An example of how I've attempted this is as follows.  At this zoom level, 
 Mapnik correctly renders a label for the suburb,
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.80617lon=-97.18193zoom=16layers=M
 Zooming in once more reveals TWO labels for the area:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.80617lon=-97.18193zoom=17layers=M
 See above links for the node and relation in my example.
 It's clear that when you zoom in the larger label is from the place node, and 
 the smaller one is from the boundary itself.
 Mapnik seems to render appropriately.

 Example Two:
 Another attempt I made used the scheme:
 - label node central to the neighborhood: 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/499644122
 - Boundary relation with just administrative level stuff in it: 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1438875
 Here you can see that the neighborhood label renders much smaller
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.81031lon=-97.16204zoom=15layers=M


 I'm inclined to think that example Two is more correct, but I have to say I 
 like the larger more prominent labels of Example One.  I know, probably not 
 good to map for the renderer.

 Opinions are appreciated!

 THanks!
 Tyler

 --
 Tyler Gunn
 ty...@egunn.com
 http://www.egunn.com/




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Re: [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads

2011-02-24 Thread Paul Johnson
On 02/24/2011 07:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
 On 2/24/2011 8:26 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
 On 02/24/2011 11:30 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
 That's *one* thing trunk means. Trunk is also used as a higher
 classification than primary.

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Trunk
 
 Exactly.

Right, but the route in question in Pennsylvania clearly doesn't meet
trunk standards.



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Re: [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads

2011-02-24 Thread Nathan Edgars II

On 2/25/2011 2:03 AM, Paul Johnson wrote:

On 02/24/2011 07:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:

On 2/24/2011 8:26 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:

On 02/24/2011 11:30 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:

That's *one* thing trunk means. Trunk is also used as a higher
classification than primary.


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Trunk


Exactly.


Right, but the route in question in Pennsylvania clearly doesn't meet
trunk standards.


...?

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