Re: [Tagging] Suggested way to map disputed country borders

[Marc Gemis]

there is already a proposal:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/DisputedTerritories

m.

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Rory McCann  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The subject of disputed country borders came up on help.osm.org
> again[1], specifically about India and the Kashmir area. There might be
> a way to solve this issue. Currently OSM tags the de facto country
> borders. But what if we also mapped the borders of country X according
> to country Y?
>
> In this case, you could map "the border of India according to India",
> and "the border of Pakistan according to India", and "the border of
> Pakistan according to Pakistan" and "the border of India according to
> Pakistan". The "border of country X according to country Y" is
> unambiguous, just check what country Y claims.
>
> Then, if someone wants to make a map aimed for country X, we can tell
> them they can just draw "country borders according to country X, and if
> that doesn't exist, use regular borders".
>
> This is similar to multilingual names, where name:YY is "The name of X
> in language YY". One suggested approach to draw maps in another language
> is to load it all in postgres, then do a SQL query to change the names.
> The same approach could work with country border. "Import with
> osm2pgsql, then run this query"
>
> What's the best way to tag this? boundary:claimed=administrative
> admin_level:claimed=2 claimed_by=IN name=Pakistan ISO3166-1=PK for
> "boundary of Pakistan claimed by India"
>
> Having a subkey of boundary=administrative administrative=claimed is
> subpar IMO, because many applications look for boundary=administrative
> admin_level=2 to get all countries, and they would break.
>
> Thoughts? Feedback? Praise?
>
> Rory
>
>
> [1]
> https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/49587/indias-administartive-boundary-issue
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] highway=service major type sub-classification - mini vote

[John Willis]

> On Apr 18, 2016, at 2:39 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> in Italy there are many alleys in historical village and urban centers, 
> sometimes they are footways (legally) but often they are just narrow streets, 
> so narrow that a car often won't pass, but a motorcycle can take it. I bet 
> this situation is not so rare in other countries with a significant amount of 
> 2-wheeled traffic and old urban structures (and not so much regulation).

In Japan (and other Asian countries) the rural farming land has been heavily 
divided, almost as heavily as urban plots  in US cities. As farms mechanized 
(but are still small, private owners), farmers increasingly used "Kei trucks" - 
very small narrow trucks that can fit through the narrowest of openings, as 
they are about 130 (?) cm wide. They dominate farming life and rural roads now. 
This has led to the creation of many rural "alley" roads that are paved (or 
concrete) and maintained, often public routable roads, but are a) purposefully 
narrow enough to make normal routing of traffic impossibly dangerous - a large 
sedan would force a walker or bicyclist off the road into the knee deep mud or 
into bamboo,  b) provide inconvenient/valueless access, though their length is 
much greater than a driveway (similar to an alley in urban settings) - as they 
route long circuitous routes branching from more direct roads, and c) are a 
step above farming gravel/mud/grass tracks that are actually used to access 
groups/individual fields. 

Since they are "routable public roads" - major map makers show these on par 
with residential or unclassified roads - which leads to routing disasters. 
Trying to follow google's routing advice has taken me down side-mirror scraping 
and panic inducing narrow roads in order to save 200m of driving distance 
because farming tucks are able to squeeze through the opening. 

Having highway=service be used for roads that are impracticality narrow, but 
not a normal "alley" removes them from being considered for routing and for 
display at lower zoom levels - but still shows them as roads that can and 
should be used for local access and for pedestrian/cycling access - choosing a 
route to avoid a narrow primary road while also avoiding a muddy access track 
or a maze of overloaded residential roads is a big bonus. 

Width and access and barrier are still needed to deny access to cars or access 
restrictions for vehicle types, but removing them from routing consideration 
and and rendering them to show their stature is a big plus. 

I hope that highway=service can find new uses by slightly expanding the idea of 
"alley" - and the "main" subtag is also highly useful - as even a large 
shopping mall (let alone a major theme park or airport) will have large 
designated collector "service" roads. 

Javbw. 
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[Tagging] Suggested way to map disputed country borders

[Rory McCann]

Hi,

The subject of disputed country borders came up on help.osm.org
again[1], specifically about India and the Kashmir area. There might be
a way to solve this issue. Currently OSM tags the de facto country
borders. But what if we also mapped the borders of country X according
to country Y?

In this case, you could map "the border of India according to India",
and "the border of Pakistan according to India", and "the border of
Pakistan according to Pakistan" and "the border of India according to
Pakistan". The "border of country X according to country Y" is
unambiguous, just check what country Y claims.

Then, if someone wants to make a map aimed for country X, we can tell
them they can just draw "country borders according to country X, and if
that doesn't exist, use regular borders".

This is similar to multilingual names, where name:YY is "The name of X
in language YY". One suggested approach to draw maps in another language
is to load it all in postgres, then do a SQL query to change the names.
The same approach could work with country border. "Import with
osm2pgsql, then run this query"

What's the best way to tag this? boundary:claimed=administrative
admin_level:claimed=2 claimed_by=IN name=Pakistan ISO3166-1=PK for
"boundary of Pakistan claimed by India"

Having a subkey of boundary=administrative administrative=claimed is
subpar IMO, because many applications look for boundary=administrative
admin_level=2 to get all countries, and they would break.

Thoughts? Feedback? Praise?

Rory


[1]
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/49587/indias-administartive-boundary-issue


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