[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Relations/Proposed/Level Map
Dear all, in order to create an easy way of mapping stacked, identical structures and vertical ways, I have created the proposal of a level map. The main purpose is to be able to map ways of general interest through multi-floor buildings (in particular where multiple rounds through staircases are needed) and public vertical ways, such as lifts. I hope that I have covered all all aspects for generating proper routing instructions, such as elevator buttons and other floor information, including accessibility. I think that the proposal is quite powerful, more or less accidentally supporting even 3D multipolygons. But that was not the purpose of the proposal. However, I feel that this is a good direction to go. Of course, if there is support for the proposal, a how-to would be needed to give a careful introduction to beginners. Please have a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Level_Map and discuss on the discussion page. Marl (sorry for any ads below this line, please ignore them) -- NEU: FreePhone - 0ct/min Handyspartarif mit Geld-zurück-Garantie! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
Hi. The proposal for marking building entrances with entrance=* tags was discussed a year and a half ago, but didn't really go anywhere: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/entrance Notice that there is a conversion mentioned in it, from deprecated building=entrance. Yesterday there was about 4500 nodes with entrance=yes and 1700 with other entrance values. An hour ago there was a big changset (#9541529) from one of belarusian mappers changing 21640 building=entrance to entrance=yes in several countries, including Russia. This is not the first attempt, and I'm undoing it now. The mappers behind this changeset say that entrance=yes is better, and entrances are not building. Whether this is relevant is disputable, but there are more that 150 000 tags building=entrance in the database, and converting them all is a big change. Also, then it will look as the proposal was approved, though it's not. So, to decide whether entrance=yes should replace building=entrance, I revived that proposal and moved it to the voting stage. Since there is such need to suddenly replace tags, I guess it doesn't need more discussion. IZ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
Hi, On 10/12/2011 11:12 PM, Ilya Zverev wrote: An hour ago there was a big changset (#9541529) from one of belarusian mappers changing 21640 building=entrance to entrance=yes in several countries, including Russia. This is not the first attempt, and I'm undoing it now. Please let them know that Data Working Group takes a very dim view of automated mass changes that do not have the required backing of the community, and will suspend their account if people complain about such actions. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
Pieren wrote: It was not widely discussed but the proposal seems to be accepted as an improvement. But deprecating a tag is never easy in OSM. It needs a large consensus, a wide audience and time ... The proposal is actually well designed in that regard. It doesn't redefine any existing tags and could simply be used in parallel with building=entrance while the conversion takes place. That conversion doesn't inherently need to involve bots or anything else except manual mapping. So I don't see a reason to oppose the proposal itself. What makes this case interesting beyond the relatively trivial tagging issue is that it raises the question whether we, as a community, are able to revise earlier decisions. To me it seems obvious that we need the ability to do so. But it is also apparent that we have no working process - not even an informal one - for handling data model changes. Tobias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru wrote: Hi. The proposal for marking building entrances with entrance=* tags was discussed a year and a half ago, but didn't really go anywhere: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/entrance An hour ago there was a big changset (#9541529) from one of belarusian mappers changing 21640 building=entrance to entrance=yes in several countries At last! Someone is actually doing something about that shitty tag, I support the intent of #9541529, is there really any reason to revert those edits, aren't we better of without building=entrance? I really hope that DWG can be kept out of this. Further I would like to propose railway=subway_entrance = entrance=public_transport, since it's probably interesting to have on bus/boat/rail terminals as well, now this is a bit more tricky since it already renders. /Erik ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru wrote: Hi. The proposal for marking building entrances with entrance=* tags was discussed a year and a half ago, but didn't really go anywhere: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/entrance An hour ago there was a big changset (#9541529) from one of belarusian mappers changing 21640 building=entrance to entrance=yes in several countries At last! Someone is actually doing something about that shitty tag, I support the intent of #9541529, is there really any reason to revert those edits, aren't we better of without building=entrance? I really hope that DWG can be kept out of this. Further I would like to propose railway=subway_entrance = entrance=public_transport, since it's probably interesting to have on bus/boat/rail terminals as well, now this is a bit more tricky since it already renders. I like this proposal as well. It allows for more expression in a single tag and unties the concept of an entrance from a building. But at the same time, the changeset was a bit premature. As was noted earlier, this new tag can live along side the old one for now. At some point I would probably support an automated retagging/removal of the old one but not yet. Toby ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
On 10/12/2011 6:52 PM, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: Please let me know when did my private renderer for those building=entrances cease being something that renders (besides the times when my VM is down of course :-))? ...Honestly, I think you just _assumed_ that nobody is using the data for anything (and that's plain wrong). ...While it would be trivial for me to change my mapnik styles, and reimport would only take something like 20mins for the part of data I'm interested in, you'd still need to assume that there is nobody else using that data. If entrance=* is being used at all, you need to change your rendering to support it, whether or not existing building=entrances are being changed. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
I think you meant might be advised rather than need On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.comwrote: If entrance=* is being used at all, you need to change your rendering to support it, whether or not existing building=entrances are being changed. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Ilpo Järvinen ilpo.jarvi...@helsinki.fi wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Erik Johansson wrote: On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru wrote: aren't we better of without building=entrance? I really hope that DWG can be kept out of this. Further I would like to propose railway=subway_entrance = entrance=public_transport, since it's probably interesting to have on bus/boat/rail terminals as well, now this is a bit more tricky sinceer it already renders. Please let me know when did my private renderer for those building=entrances cease being something that renders (besides the times when my VM is down of course :-))? ...Honestly, I think you just _assumed_ that nobody is using the data for anything I assumed you would love to get rid of that tag, I might not have put it in the best way so I'll include what was said by Tobias: Tobias Knerr: What makes this case interesting beyond the relatively trivial tagging issue is that it raises the question whether we, as a community, are able to revise earlier decisions. To me it seems obvious that we need the ability to do so. But it is also apparent that we have no working process - not even an informal one - for handling data model changes. /Erik ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 10/12/2011 6:52 PM, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: Please let me know when did my private renderer for those building=entrances cease being something that renders (besides the times when my VM is down of course :-))? ...Honestly, I think you just _assumed_ that nobody is using the data for anything (and that's plain wrong). ...While it would be trivial for me to change my mapnik styles, and reimport would only take something like 20mins for the part of data I'm interested in, you'd still need to assume that there is nobody else using that data. If entrance=* is being used at all, you need to change your rendering to support it, whether or not existing building=entrances are being changed. True, however I doubt that would be problem for my area as almost all of them are created by me anyway ;-). But that's still besides my point which is that deprication should be handled properly instead of giving those hints for DWG to not interfere on mass removal even before anything is official. FYI, I'm not against the proposal itself and in fact I've used some of the suggested tags already together with building=entrance but not the entrance=yes. -- i.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 1:14 AM, Ilpo Järvinen ilpo.jarvi...@helsinki.fi wrote: But that's still besides my point which is that deprication should be handled properly instead of giving those hints for DWG to not interfere on mass removal even before anything is official. FYI, I'm not against the proposal itself and in fact I've used some of the suggested tags already together with building=entrance but not the entrance=yes. So the question is still what is proper action? Does it take Komяpa or someone similar with their own rendering engine to make the change? I do agree with you that removing all building=entrance might not have been the best idea, but I still support the intent of it. :-) -- /emj ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
So, how about proposals to replace tags globally? For example, after this proposal is accepted, we could start voting on mass-retagging entrances, so 1) it's official; 2) most data consumers get to know about the change and adjust their software accordingly? With this we could make a precedent for future retaggings. IZ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - entrance=*
2011/10/13 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com: Further I would like to propose railway=subway_entrance = entrance=public_transport, since it's probably interesting to have on bus/boat/rail terminals as well, now this is a bit more tricky since it already renders. As the creator of the proposal I do not like your proposed key/value entrance=public_transport. The tag should show the importance of an entrance and not what you will find behind the door. I will pass the ball to the public transport group. (e.g. public_transport=entrance). Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
