Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
2013/8/30 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com And since each store is branded uniquely, and don't always use the name Ace Hardware in their name[1] or other material, I don't think brand fits either. But we may want to indicate that the relationship between store and co-op exists, so in this case, since they belong to a co-op, I've used co-op=Ace Hardware. my first idea was also to use brand like we do in other occasions (gas stations, McD, car dealers, ...) but reading the comments of Bryce and Clifford and taking into account they don't always use the name Ace Hardware I believe your co-op tag fits best for this (and other co-ops). Regarding the wording it would be better to avoid abbreviations and to use cooperative instead. Btw.: I couldn't find any co-op tags via taginfo and 46 occurences with cooperative (42 of them yes). http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/cooperative cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Substation Refinement
In Italy there are many substation like this Cabina Enel http://viadeisalici.blog.tiscali.it/files/2011/04/imagesCAMV.jpg the line arrive in the building. How can I tag this? Actually building=yes + power=sub_station, but for JOSM if I connect del line with the node of substation take me an advice. Lost Pole/tower. Do I have to connect the line with one node at center of substation and tag it with power=transformer? See example in OSM: way 36445895 -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Feature-Proposal-RFC-Substation-Refinement-tp5762146p5775616.html Sent from the Tagging mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Substation Refinement
Another question. But the pole with transformer is a substation? For me is better to tag it as a Pole because really I see a pole, not all people know a transformer. Then if I put transformer=yes I see there is a transformer in the pole. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Feature-Proposal-RFC-Substation-Refinement-tp5762146p5775617.html Sent from the Tagging mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Substation Refinement
Same in France, we have many substations like the one on your picture bredy. We miss wall attach tag beside poles and towers to deal with those issues. 2013/8/30 bredy bredy...@yahoo.it Another question. But the pole with transformer is a substation? For me is better to tag it as a Pole because really I see a pole, not all people know a transformer. Then if I put transformer=yes I see there is a transformer in the pole. Regading this, I'm willing to introduce man_made=pole/tower to use power=transformer on the same node. It's currently discussed on ML and transmission proposal : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement#Power_vs_man_made_for_towers_and_poles Using transformer=yes will force data cosnumers to deal with many different combinations for transformer (and other hosted stuff) while poles and towers may not have so many to do with power=* *François Lacombe* francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu http://www.infos-reseaux.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
The difference between Ace Hardware and a company like McDonalds is that in McDonalds, you will have very strong branding associated with the franchise. A consumer goes into a store labeled McDonalds. But an Ace Hardware store is a complex beast, because the branding is all over the place, from being in the name (such as in the case of the store in Missouri), to being secondary to another brand- such as in the Maryland suburbs, where there are Strosnider's Hardware ( http://www.strosniders.com/ ). Each store prominently displays the Strosniders name and logo, employees wear the same uniforms, etc. They happen to be Ace Hardware storse, but as a consumer, I wouldn't know unless I was looking for it. - Serge ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
2013/8/30 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com Each store prominently displays the Strosniders name and logo, employees wear the same uniforms, etc. They happen to be Ace Hardware storse, but as a consumer, I wouldn't know unless I was looking for it. i.e. you could tag them brand=Strosniders and cooperative=Ace Hardware Corporation cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ranger Station Tag Update (too anglo-centric)?
IMHO use amenity=ranger_station - no need to hide it in a subtag. If this is anglo centric other people where this feature doesn't exist simply won't use the tag. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
I don't think the distinction in their governance is important for a map. There's a slippery slope somewhere where osm becomes wikipedia. What's important is that there's a hardware store, and the name it is known by. I would use franchise. If you want to make up weak_franchise for stores that are part of Ace but for which this is not really apparent to the public, that seems ok. Around me, there are several that are [townname] Ace Hardware, and you know you are going to Ace, but that it's locally owned. There was Robinson's Ace, where you knew it was Ace, but now it's Robinson's True Value and it's not really different. I don't like the co-op tag because normally co-op has the connotation that the user of the store is a co-op member, not that the store is at a higher level. pgpoTWvHdQJFq.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
On 8/30/13 9:12 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: I don't think the distinction in their governance is important for a map. There's a slippery slope somewhere where osm becomes wikipedia. What's important is that there's a hardware store, and the name it is known by. I would use franchise. If you want to make up weak_franchise for stores that are part of Ace but for which this is not really apparent to the public, that seems ok. i'm inclined to think that the existing brand tag, combined with name and operator, is sufficient. franchise might be ok, but it strikes me as unnecessary tag creep. Around me, there are several that are [townname] Ace Hardware, and you know you are going to Ace, but that it's locally owned. There was Robinson's Ace, where you knew it was Ace, but now it's Robinson's True Value and it's not really different. the only difference is generally in the ace (or true value) branded tools and supplies. the milwaukee brand drill is the same drill in both stores, with approximately the same price. the midwest fastener display will be about the same irrespective of store brand as well. I don't like the co-op tag because normally co-op has the connotation that the user of the store is a co-op member, not that the store is at a higher level. i agree. a coop tag used in this manner will lead to confusion and mistagging. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ranger Station Tag Update (too anglo-centric)?
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:44 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: IMHO use amenity=ranger_station - no need to hide it in a subtag. If this is anglo centric other people where this feature doesn't exist simply won't use the tag. +1 -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
I don't like the co-op tag because normally co-op has the connotation that the user of the store is a co-op member, not that the store is at a higher level. i agree. a coop tag used in this manner will lead to confusion and mistagging. +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
Yeah, I think I like franchise too. cooperative is not really import from the consumer's standpoint. operator is good but separate, and yes there is overlap, just like there is with brand. Perhaps someone who likes to write will write this up as a proposal? - Serge ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
+1 for franchise=; that covers all types of franchises, and keeps clear of operator=. __John ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ranger Station Tag Update (too anglo-centric)?
On 30 August 2013 12:44, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: IMHO use amenity=ranger_station - no need to hide it in a subtag. If this is anglo centric other people where this feature doesn't exist simply won't use the tag. +1 Volker (Padova, Italy) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] funny tags: turning_radius
Hi, On 29.08.2013 16:07, André Pirard wrote: This tag was created for the specific needs of logging [to tell which timbering vehicle can pass a bend] More background here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Round_wood_transport_in_the_forest Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Substation Refinement
On 30/08/2013 11:00, bredy wrote: Another question. But the pole with transformer is a substation? For me is better to tag it as a Pole because really I see a pole, not all people know a transformer. Then if I put transformer=yes I see there is a transformer in the pole. Agree, the transformer is just a feature of the pole. I wouldn't tag it as a substation. According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substation_refinement that is indeed how to do it. I see no problems in having an alternative tagging of the transformer since the power key is already used for the pole. For retrieval it is only slightly more complicated than just searching for power=transformer. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
While ACE is indeed a franchise since they file an annual FDD with the FTC how about something weaker than franchise? operator = North East McD Operating Company affiliation = McDonalds Corporation operator = Joe Smith, Proprietor. affiliation = ACE Hardware Corporation affiliation_2 = North East Hardware Cooperative With ACE what's important (I suppose) is that the store probably carries a bunch of ACE products. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Substation Refinement
On 30/08/2013 10:55, bredy wrote: In Italy there are many substation like this Cabina Enel http://viadeisalici.blog.tiscali.it/files/2011/04/imagesCAMV.jpg the line arrive in the building. How can I tag this? Actually building=yes + power=sub_station, but for JOSM if I connect del line with the node of substation take me an advice. Lost Pole/tower. Do I have to connect the line with one node at center of substation and tag it with power=transformer? Actually this is more relevant to the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substation_refinement proposal than to the power transmission proposal. According to that scheme you should tag the substation as building=yes, power=substation, location=indoor. I would prefer to connect the incoming power lines to the building polygon as you don't really know what happens inside. However, you may add a node inside and tag it with power=transformer, transformer=distribution. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: operator = Joe Smith, Proprietor. affiliation = ACE Hardware Corporation affiliation_2 = North East Hardware Cooperative This is exactly the kind of over-tagging I'd like to avoid. - Serge With ACE what's important (I suppose) is that the store probably carries a bunch of ACE products. Not to me. I don't think OSM is where we want to carry store inventories. We had that discussion on that list a year ago. What I care(d) about was that you can look up an ACE store by its ref id. - Serge ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ace Hardware
It's also nice to keep things a bit simple in OSM, because all records in the database need correct input and maintenance. I'm already seeing a lot of confusion on petrol stations. Where I just want to find the nearest fuel station (yes, I would like to have 99% coverage of amenity=fuel in OSM worldwide) the next thing is already less important: 'is it a Shell or an Esso, or ...'. There's not one way, but three to put Shell/Esso in: name, brand, operator. I see them mixed up already. Please no extra confusing tags with are hard to maintain and to explain. Cheers, Johan 2013/8/30 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com While ACE is indeed a franchise since they file an annual FDD with the FTC how about something weaker than franchise? operator = North East McD Operating Company affiliation = McDonalds Corporation operator = Joe Smith, Proprietor. affiliation = ACE Hardware Corporation affiliation_2 = North East Hardware Cooperative With ACE what's important (I suppose) is that the store probably carries a bunch of ACE products. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Tagging for a pack station?
(response to message archived at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2013-August/014639.html ) I took a look around and likely the closest match, albeit still a far one, would be Trail riding station which is listed among features on the page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Riding . It is telling that though there are ~500 used instances of route=horse, there are no instances for either route=mule, route=donkey or route=pack_animal. So I think that the whole matter of mapping verrry rugged terrain where only pack animals have a reasonable chance of traversing terrain is relatively un-addressed so far. In the case you are looking at, what type of route are you working with? Does it have a designated or preferred animal permissive? Or is it a standard horse route which would be tagged with smoothness=impassable and surface=ground? --ceyockey ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging for a pack station?
Hi, Interesting. Sounds like the equivalent of a hostel or mountain hut used by hikers or skiers but for equistrians. I don't know much about horses or the facilities for them. I know there are several buildings at the place I want to map one of which has been called a bunk house and another that looks like it is for storage. And there are some corrals. The road to the facility is closed in winter in an area I do some ski touring and would like to properly map, more for skiing than for summer use and the site is a definite landmark. I looked at the business's website and it appears that they do guided day trips as well as the more traditional freight hauling so riding stables might be appropriate for some of the function. But it does not appear that they will board horses that don't belong to them nor do they have overnight facilities for the riders. If my reading of the trail riding station page is accurate, it seems that would rule out that tagging for this facility. Thank you for the suggestion, -Tod On Aug 30, 2013, at 2:36 PM, dies38...@mypacks.net wrote: (response to message archived at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2013-August/014639.html ) I took a look around and likely the closest match, albeit still a far one, would be Trail riding station which is listed among features on the page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Riding . It is telling that though there are ~500 used instances of route=horse, there are no instances for either route=mule, route=donkey or route=pack_animal. So I think that the whole matter of mapping verrry rugged terrain where only pack animals have a reasonable chance of traversing terrain is relatively un-addressed so far. In the case you are looking at, what type of route are you working with? Does it have a designated or preferred animal permissive? Or is it a standard horse route which would be tagged with smoothness=impassable and surface=ground? --ceyockey ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
