[Tagging] RFC Tagging for complex junctions

2014-10-18 Thread Lukas Sommer
Hello.

The combined proposal for complex junctions and complex traffic signal
systems had less support than I hoped (5 of 9 votes).

Initially, I was thinking it was a good idea to treat these two features
together. However, this was obviously not a good idea. It made the
discussion harder. These two subjects seem to be to different to be treated
together. So it seems to be better to split this into two different
proposals: one for complex junctions and one for complex traffic signals.

Today I start RFC for the complex junction tagging. A new proposal page has
been created at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions
which takes into account the comments which have been made during the
previous voting.

Best regards

Lukas Sommer
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[Tagging] sport= non-physical tags and the exceptions people come up with...

2014-10-18 Thread Andreas Goss

Can you please stop trying to come up with exceptions for the sport= tag?

Just saw this on scuba diving:

 Should be used to mark a place for scuba diving, preferably as an 
attribute of natural=beach, natural=stone natural=cliff or a fitting 
segment of a coastline or lake.


 For dive bases or dive shops see: amenity=dive_centre or 
shop=scuba_diving


How do you tag a store shop=sports now? How do you tag a club=sport now?

See also: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:sport%3Dscuba_diving#Divespot_:_sport.3D.2A_non-physical_tag



There is a reason we combine all other tags with pitch or different 
leisure tags. If a sport= tag on it's own is supposed to be a sports 
site then you can't use it for anything else to indicated a relation to 
that sport.

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[Tagging] Review of water_tap proposal

2014-10-18 Thread Kotya Karapetyan
Dear all,

This is a kind reminder that the water_tap proposal (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/water_tap) is in the
RFC stage at the moment. Please comment here or at the discussion page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/water_tap.

Cheers,
Kotya
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Water tap

2014-10-18 Thread Konstantin Karapetyan
Sorry, I have missed the discussion due to my poor management of email
accounts.

I have already corrected the proposal from man_made to amenity following
the suggestion at
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/27869/how-to-tag-water-taps-not-intended-for-drinking-water.
So this is fixed.

As for the clash with amenity=drinking_water: I see it, but I think there
is an advantage of having yet another tag:

- amenity=drinking_water can be used as an attribute where the presence
thereof is non-obvious. E.g., for amenity=toilets. A water_tap is a
separate object, and a combination amenity=water_tap + drinkable=yes would
provide for a more specific mapping, where appropriate.

- The combination drinking_water + drinkable=no is indeed quite confusing
and has already caused a few discussions (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/water_tap#Rationale).
water_tap would help clarify.

- amenity=drinking_water is not always a tap, it can be a fountain, a well,
a tap in a WC again; it can be used quite generally, without additional
thinking. In some cases, there may exist uncertainty as to how to tag a
feature, but it's certain that potable water is available there. This tag
fits well in such situations. water_tap provides similar clarity when the
object is clearly there but the mapper doesn't know the type of water. It
may be difficult to imagine the abundance of such situations for the West
Europeans and Americans; but I come from Russia, where this situation is
very typical. I've met it in other developing countries as well. Especially
in the warm countries it is important not to confuse a source of water with
potable water. Quite a few people I know from developed countries have
suffered badly because they didn't realise there was a difference.

- Map software often simply shows an icon without giving access to
additional attributes. In that case a user may have no chance of seeing
drinkable=no for drinking_water. The symbol for drinking_water —
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddrinking_water#Rendering —
is very clear, and the contradiction may lead to quite unfortunate
situations.

- What can a mapper do if he doesn't know the quality of water? At
graveyards (the main reason for my proposal), the water can clearly be used
for plant watering. The graveyards may be vast, and this mapping actually
makes sense.

Cheers,
Kotya





On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 2014-10-10 19:13 GMT+02:00 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com:

 I use
 amenity=drinking_water + drinkable=no



 I agree with your own judgement that this is nonesense ;-)
 IMHO we shouldn't tag like this.

 This is not really comparable to entrance=exit (as any exit physically
 might be used as an entrance as well, while drinking water is about water
 that is drinkable (implying more than once)).

 Also agree with Tobias, a water_tap would better fit into amenity.

 Frankly, I believe water_tap is too generic given that we already have
 established amenity=drinking_water for water taps that do emit drinking
 water. At this point if you don't want to create conflicts with existing
 tagging scheme, a water tap emitting water that is not drinkable (i.e. the
 stuff that remains for tagging when all taps with drinking water are tagged
 differently) could get a tag like amenity=raw_water or industrial_water.

 I would believe it is also highly unprobable that there will be a water
 tap for sewage water (there might be closures / valves of course, but this
 will likely not be something that we'll map, or if we did, it will be a
 subtag in some wastewater treatment / sewage tagging system and not in
 amenity=*).

 cheers,
 Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (brickkiln)

2014-10-18 Thread Megha Shrestha
Thank you for the suggestion. These are the details that are already
available to us and I think they can be huge help if made open which is the
reason for me to suggest this tag. I have gone through your suggestions and
will make the required edits. Use of existing tag can be a help. I will add
the additional information you said will be relevant to the proposal page.
There is no such community that keeps these data updated but we are the
representatives of OSM in Nepal and we are trying to get data updated
regularly in OSM and this is also a part of our project. I find these data
relevant especially in the environment aspect and people should have access
to these data as I found that brick kilns are not much mapped in OSM. About
the operating season and the market they are quite stable in case of Nepal
for other countries I do not have much idea. I think landownership can be
added as a tag as brick kiln are mapped as an area.

I hope my explanation works and I will make edits to the page.

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 4:50 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 2014-10-15 6:31 GMT+02:00 Megha Shrestha meghashrest...@gmail.com:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/brickkiln




 I have seen on your proposal page that you are aware of the introduced
 man_made=kiln
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dkiln

 My suggestion is to use this established tagging scheme. If the only
 problem you see is that there are no size connotations on a node, then
 please use that tag on an area. There is also a suggestion to add
 product=bricks on the kiln page, so rather then proposing a new tag
 brickkiln you could use
 man_made=kiln
 and
 product=bricks

 You are also proposing a long list of additional tags, some of which are
 very detailed and I am not sure if these details are available to anyone
 besides the operator of the kiln (but that's not a problem, time will show
 which tags get adopted by the mappers and which aren't). If you are
 interesting in evaluating these tags I'd propose you add a list of possible
 values to these tags.

 In particular:

 firing
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:firingaction=editredlink=1
 =* Type of firing used. eg: continuous


 what are the other firing types?


  chimney
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:chimneyaction=editredlink=1
 =yes/no To denote the existence of the chimney  chimney
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:chimneyaction=editredlink=1
 :number
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:numberaction=editredlink=1
 =* Number of the chimney in the brick kiln area


 maybe chimney:amount would be easier to understand? or chimney_count
 (similar to step_count for steps)?


  chimney
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:chimneyaction=editredlink=1
 :height http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:height=height in meters 
 Height
 of the top of the chimney from ground-level in meters. (like Tag:man
 made=tower http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dtower)
 chimney
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:chimneyaction=editredlink=1
 :category
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:categoryaction=editredlink=1
 =* Type of chimney existing in the brick kiln area


 My suggestion would be to map the chimneys individually with their own
 objects. You could then omit the related chimney tags on the kiln area and
 use simple and well established general tags like height on the
 individual chimney. Also the chimney number would be mapped implicitly by
 mapping the single chimneys.


  fuel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fuel=* Fuel used to heat
 the kiln  quantity_fuel
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:quantity_fuelaction=editredlink=1
 =* Quantity of the fuel required


 required for what? In what time? In what unit should it be entered (if at
 all)? Maybe this is a detail that is hard to get.


  moulding_process
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:moulding_processaction=editredlink=1
 =* The moulding process used to produce bricks


 what are the possibilities/suggested values?



  drying_system
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:drying_systemaction=editredlink=1
 =* Drying system used to dry the bricks


 what are the possibilities/suggested values?


  material http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:material=* Type of
 material used to produce bricks

 if this refers to the bricks and not to the kiln, the tag should be
 different, e.g. brick:material or brick:type

 what are the possibilities/suggested values?


  production
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:productionaction=editredlink=1
 =* Actual production of the brick kiln


 what does this mean? Whether the kiln is active? The type of bricks it
 produces?


  production_capacity
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:production_capacityaction=editredlink=1
 =* The