[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - opening hours default PH off
Hi everyone As noted by Ein Mapper on [the current weekly task in Germany][1] it would be convenient to have an implicit PH off added to most opening_hours values during evaluation. I had not thought about this before but now that I do I agree more and more that this makes sense and wrote a proposal [2]. Any thoughts about this? [1]: https://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2015/04/wochenaufgabe-oeffnungszeiten/#comment-143413 [2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_default_PH_off -- Live long and prosper Robin Schneider signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - opening hours default PH off
On 30.04.2015 18:04, p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Thu Apr 30 16:40:25 2015 GMT+0100, Michał Brzozowski wrote: On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Robin `ypid` Schneider ypi...@aol.de wrote: Hi everyone As noted by Ein Mapper on [the current weekly task in Germany][1] it would be convenient to have an implicit PH off added to most opening_hours values during evaluation. I had not thought about this before but now that I do I agree more and more that this makes sense and wrote a proposal [2]. Any thoughts about this? Don't be German-centric :-P (I know that basically everything closes on public holidays in Germany). It really is another hoop to jump through, another thing that we impose on data consumers of this already potentially (edge cases) very elaborated tag. And while a notion of SH/PH is rather well defined for a mapper in given country, default closure in these days may be not. Another table to maintain. It really makes more problems than it solves: is PH off supposed to apply also to 24/7 features? E.g. convenience shop vs an outdoor ATM. No as already documented under Example Description. PH off for 24/7 would make no sense. +1 You would also have to define which public holidays, in the Uk Christmas Day and Easter Sunday have restrictions, other public holidays are at the businesses discretion and will vary from year to year. Phil (trigpoint ) The definition of the public holidays is done once in the software which parses the opening_hours value. See https://github.com/ypid/opening_hours.js#holidays I understand your concerns. The reason for this proposal is to define a better default. I expect that most countries have something like public holidays and that most amenities are closed on those days. Regarding the UK. The public holiday definition is still an open issue. Please consider adding them to opening_hours.js. Also [bank holidays][BH] need to be defined then. E.g. convenience shop vs an outdoor ATM. That is a good point which I want to find out in this discussion. In my initial proposal I suggested to apply the implicit PH off to all objects with opening_hours. In case we come up with the opinion that this proposal is ok, but only for amenity=* and shop=* for example, I am not sure if I would still propose the implicit PH off then because this might be too much rules. PS: Sorry for the double post … Not sure why the * my Thunderbird does this. [BH]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:opening_hours#BH.3F -- Live long and prosper Robin Schneider signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - opening hours default PH off
In the USA, there aren't any public holidays on a national scale on which businesses are required to close. I don't know of any such laws on a state scale, but I am not familiar with the laws of all 50 states. Government agencies tend to close on Federal holidays, and on some state holidays, varying agency by agency and state by state. For private businesses, it is the employer's decision. Retail businesses tend to hold special sales on days when many people will be off from work. On April 30, 2015 11:04:07 AM CDT, p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Thu Apr 30 16:40:25 2015 GMT+0100, Michał Brzozowski wrote: On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Robin `ypid` Schneider ypi...@aol.de wrote: Hi everyone As noted by Ein Mapper on [the current weekly task in Germany][1] it would be convenient to have an implicit PH off added to most opening_hours values during evaluation. I had not thought about this before but now that I do I agree more and more that this makes sense and wrote a proposal [2]. Any thoughts about this? Don't be German-centric :-P (I know that basically everything closes on public holidays in Germany). It really is another hoop to jump through, another thing that we impose on data consumers of this already potentially (edge cases) very elaborated tag. And while a notion of SH/PH is rather well defined for a mapper in given country, default closure in these days may be not. Another table to maintain. It really makes more problems than it solves: is PH off supposed to apply also to 24/7 features? E.g. convenience shop vs an outdoor ATM. +1 You would also have to define which public holidays, in the Uk Christmas Day and Easter Sunday have restrictions, other public holidays are at the businesses discretion and will vary from year to year. Phil (trigpoint ) -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - opening hours default PH off
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Robin `ypid` Schneider ypi...@aol.de wrote: Hi everyone As noted by Ein Mapper on [the current weekly task in Germany][1] it would be convenient to have an implicit PH off added to most opening_hours values during evaluation. I had not thought about this before but now that I do I agree more and more that this makes sense and wrote a proposal [2]. Any thoughts about this? Don't be German-centric :-P (I know that basically everything closes on public holidays in Germany). It really is another hoop to jump through, another thing that we impose on data consumers of this already potentially (edge cases) very elaborated tag. And while a notion of SH/PH is rather well defined for a mapper in given country, default closure in these days may be not. Another table to maintain. It really makes more problems than it solves: is PH off supposed to apply also to 24/7 features? E.g. convenience shop vs an outdoor ATM. Michał ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of pitches within a campsite
+1 on addr:unit or ref over addr:housenumber. I think ref makes more sense than addr:unit on remote/isolated pitches (ie hike-in sites, not drive-in). In addition, I've seen cases where individual pitches are named instead of numbered. It's not mentioned, but to clarify, I'm assuming that would just use name On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:07 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/04/2015 11:17 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:37 PM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote: That sounds like “tagging for the renderer” to me. When rendering lags tagging behavior, there is that temptation. Rendering will always lag behind tagging. If tagging is to be rendered then adding another tag to have it rendered will lead to the original tag being ignored by renders .. Catch 22. Also, it's more likely to be rendered if the tagging is well-defined and sensible. If the tagging is awkwardly trying to fit into a particular rendering, or overly complicated, it's probably not going to be used by mappers long-term. I think detailed renderings of campgrounds sounds like a perfect case for a specialized map, maybe on a new map, or added to one of these: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM-based_services#Biking.2C_Geocaching.2C_Hiking.2C_Sport So I wouldn't sweat whether it's rendered right now or not, someone is going to scratch that itch. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - opening hours default PH off
On Thu Apr 30 16:40:25 2015 GMT+0100, Michał Brzozowski wrote: On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Robin `ypid` Schneider ypi...@aol.de wrote: Hi everyone As noted by Ein Mapper on [the current weekly task in Germany][1] it would be convenient to have an implicit PH off added to most opening_hours values during evaluation. I had not thought about this before but now that I do I agree more and more that this makes sense and wrote a proposal [2]. Any thoughts about this? Don't be German-centric :-P (I know that basically everything closes on public holidays in Germany). It really is another hoop to jump through, another thing that we impose on data consumers of this already potentially (edge cases) very elaborated tag. And while a notion of SH/PH is rather well defined for a mapper in given country, default closure in these days may be not. Another table to maintain. It really makes more problems than it solves: is PH off supposed to apply also to 24/7 features? E.g. convenience shop vs an outdoor ATM. +1 You would also have to define which public holidays, in the Uk Christmas Day and Easter Sunday have restrictions, other public holidays are at the businesses discretion and will vary from year to year. Phil (trigpoint ) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
