Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Electric outlets that have a USB-style connector, for charging cell phones and other portable devices, are fairly new. I don't recall seeing any until about a year ago. So, there is not yet a common name for them, to distinguish them from conventional electric outlets that offer only 120V AC. I have seen the USB charging kiosks in airports, but, again, am not aware of a specialized name for them. I charge my phone using a small adapter that plugs into a regular wall outlet or extension cord. On May 23, 2015 3:23:48 PM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. And I reckon for those of you who expressed concern about rendering, that part of it isn't up to me, or us, and will be resolved later. The big question is whether to expand the use of the tag so it includes devices other than vehicles. The article mentions bicycles but doesn't go into detail about bicycle charging_stations except to say There are some different types of charging stations. E-Bikes e.g. can be charged at an domestic wall socket. To my mind, that opens the door to expanding the use of the tag. Asbolutely ! Also the notion of socket:type=USB or socket:USB=* (a number of sockets or yes) seems fine. The other keys mentioned in the Wiki entry can be used just as they are in many other similar situations: fee=* operator=* access=* voltage=* opening_hours=* These stations, or in the case of the Seattle airport, entire sections of seats, have domestic wall sockets offering a way to charge laptops as well as the USB output. The tag socket:nema_5_15=* denoting is bulky to say the least but if that's the established tag for the receptacles found in American homes, then it might work here too. What do 'standard Americans' call their sockets ? We shouldn't be using technical names on OSM unless that's the common name for them. Voltage is a useful bit of data. If we don't do it this way, clearly another amenity tag will be needed. I hate to start down that path because I know it will be difficult to achieve any consensus. In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. Regards Dave -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Replace tagging mailling list with Loomio?
On Sat, 2015-05-23 at 14:50 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Of over 400 people posting on the tagging list, only 5 have shown any interest in that. I'll leave it to you to infer any decisions from that ;) Well, yes. As one of the five who did try, I can say I tried it. It works, its possibly a bit easier to manage than the mailing list but I don't see it has enough benefit for the trauma of change. Mind you, that change is quite small, Loomio can be treated as a mailing list for those that don't want the Loomio interface. But still, insufficient incentive to change IMHO. People don't like change. David ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. I think that's a choice with high long term costs to rendering and processing engines. What will happen is that you're asking rendering and processing software to keep up with a blizzard of subtags. charging_station presently is understood to mean a vehicle charging station, not a generic charging station. Suddenly icons designed for vehicle charging will start appearing inside airports. Similarly: power_supply=cee_17_red power_supply=cee_7_4 power_supply=usb forces rendering to understand a long series of values. For an AC wall plug that means understanding that nema_5_15 sev_1011 and cei_23_16 are all types of AC wall plugs, but that USB is something different. It's asking too much from the maintainers of rendering software. If you're mapping a duck, call it a duck not a creature=thing_with_feathers legs=2 quacking=yes. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 23/05/2015 3:57 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. I think that's a choice with high long term costs to rendering and processing engines. What will happen is that you're asking rendering and processing software to keep up with a blizzard of subtags. charging_station presently is understood to mean a vehicle charging station, not a generic charging station. Suddenly icons designed for vehicle charging will start appearing inside airports. Similarly: power_supply=cee_17_red power_supply=cee_7_4 power_supply=usb forces rendering to understand a long series of values. For an AC wall plug that means understanding that nema_5_15sev_1011 and cei_23_16 are all types of AC wall plugs, but that USB is something different. It's asking too much from the maintainers of rendering software. bbq has the same problem.. electric, wood, gas ... as does building .. school, retail, residential, church, post office ... The rendering 'problem' ? /To render or not .. that is the question? (to misquote Bill). / The data can be added .. rendering is another problem. First the tagging, then the mapping .. then the rendering. They all have their problems. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 03:54:57PM +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 22 May 2015 at 15:29, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. I agree. A cascade is a waterfall in American English. How, then would you describe: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Water_Feature_in_Cabot_Place,_Canary_Wharf_%282%29_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1472986.jpg it could be a weir and waterfall http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Waterfalls#Artificial_waterfalls or some kind of playground Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=supplements = shop=dietary_supplements
Is this the sort of thing 'health food' shops sell ? Look a bit on google. Yeah seems like it would fit for some of those stores. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Replace tagging mailling list with Loomio?
How's this going? Any decisions? https://www.loomio.org/d/gW9avzUK/replace-tagging-mailling-list-with-loomio *Regards,* *Hans* *http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13* ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 17:29:27 +1000 From: Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations Message-ID: 55602c57.1090...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; Format=flowed On 23/05/2015 3:57 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. I think that's a choice with high long term costs to rendering and processing engines. What will happen is that you're asking rendering and processing software to keep up with a blizzard of subtags. charging_station presently is understood to mean a vehicle charging station, not a generic charging station. Suddenly icons designed for vehicle charging will start appearing inside airports. Similarly: power_supply=cee_17_red power_supply=cee_7_4 power_supply=usb forces rendering to understand a long series of values. For an AC wall plug that means understanding that nema_5_15sev_1011 and cei_23_16 are all types of AC wall plugs, but that USB is something different. It's asking too much from the maintainers of rendering software. bbq has the same problem.. electric, wood, gas ... as does building .. school, retail, residential, church, post office ... The rendering 'problem' ? /To render or not .. that is the question? (to misquote Bill). / The data can be added .. rendering is another problem. First the tagging, then the mapping .. then the rendering. They all have their problems. -- next part -- +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Replace tagging mailling list with Loomio?
On 2015-05-23 14:17, Hans De Kryger wrote : How's this going? Any decisions? https://www.loomio.org/d/gW9avzUK/replace-tagging-mailling-list-with-loomio Is that an opinion? I have reported in more than 5 words that I was unable to subscribe (via Google). I was asked to open a ticket but there has never been a single answer. On the other hand, I have explained that archiving the present discussions on an IMAP server is way better. In terms of search capability, HTML support and managing messages like those of your own mail-books (replying, forwarding ...). I'm doing that for several lists on a Gmail account and I'm extremely happy with it. The problem was that a public IMAP archive server should be Read-Only. Since then, I discovered Dovecot (Setting up a public read-only mailing list archive). But there's rarely much understanding and interest for what I write. Cheers André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Replace tagging mailling list with Loomio?
Hi, On 05/23/2015 02:17 PM, Hans De Kryger wrote: How's this going? Any decisions? Of over 400 people posting on the tagging list, only 5 have shown any interest in that. I'll leave it to you to infer any decisions from that ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Proposed mechanical edit for comment: amenity=ev_charging
109 uses of http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dev_charging remain, though http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station has long since taken over. The proposed edit will move over the nodes that make sense, and completely remove amenity=ev_charging from the dataset. Expected impact on data consumers is none. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/Bryce_C_Nesbitt ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. And I reckon for those of you who expressed concern about rendering, that part of it isn't up to me, or us, and will be resolved later. The big question is whether to expand the use of the tag so it includes devices other than vehicles. The article mentions bicycles but doesn't go into detail about bicycle charging_stations except to say There are some different types of charging stations. E-Bikes e.g. can be charged at an domestic wall socket. To my mind, that opens the door to expanding the use of the tag. Also the notion of socket:type=USB or socket:USB=* (a number of sockets or yes) seems fine. The other keys mentioned in the Wiki entry can be used just as they are in many other similar situations: fee=* operator=* access=* voltage=* opening_hours=* These stations, or in the case of the Seattle airport, entire sections of seats, have domestic wall sockets offering a way to charge laptops as well as the USB output. The tag socket:nema_5_15=* denoting is bulky to say the least but if that's the established tag for the receptacles found in American homes, then it might work here too. If we don't do it this way, clearly another amenity tag will be needed. I hate to start down that path because I know it will be difficult to achieve any consensus. In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. Regards Dave On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Mark Bradley ethnicfoodisgr...@gmail.com wrote: Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 17:29:27 +1000 From: Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations Message-ID: 55602c57.1090...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; Format=flowed On 23/05/2015 3:57 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. I think that's a choice with high long term costs to rendering and processing engines. What will happen is that you're asking rendering and processing software to keep up with a blizzard of subtags. charging_station presently is understood to mean a vehicle charging station, not a generic charging station. Suddenly icons designed for vehicle charging will start appearing inside airports. Similarly: power_supply=cee_17_red power_supply=cee_7_4 power_supply=usb forces rendering to understand a long series of values. For an AC wall plug that means understanding that nema_5_15sev_1011 and cei_23_16 are all types of AC wall plugs, but that USB is something different. It's asking too much from the maintainers of rendering software. bbq has the same problem.. electric, wood, gas ... as does building .. school, retail, residential, church, post office ... The rendering 'problem' ? /To render or not .. that is the question? (to misquote Bill). / The data can be added .. rendering is another problem. First the tagging, then the mapping .. then the rendering. They all have their problems. -- next part -- +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 23 May 2015 at 06:57, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: If you're mapping a duck, call it a duck not a creature=thing_with_feathers legs=2 quacking=yes. Surely a duck is an amenity ? After all, it enhances the 'park' experience. Bread_vending=no. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. And I reckon for those of you who expressed concern about rendering, that part of it isn't up to me, or us, and will be resolved later. The big question is whether to expand the use of the tag so it includes devices other than vehicles. The article mentions bicycles but doesn't go into detail about bicycle charging_stations except to say There are some different types of charging stations. E-Bikes e.g. can be charged at an domestic wall socket. To my mind, that opens the door to expanding the use of the tag. Asbolutely ! Also the notion of socket:type=USB or socket:USB=* (a number of sockets or yes) seems fine. The other keys mentioned in the Wiki entry can be used just as they are in many other similar situations: fee=* operator=* access=* voltage=* opening_hours=* These stations, or in the case of the Seattle airport, entire sections of seats, have domestic wall sockets offering a way to charge laptops as well as the USB output. The tag socket:nema_5_15=* denoting is bulky to say the least but if that's the established tag for the receptacles found in American homes, then it might work here too. What do 'standard Americans' call their sockets ? We shouldn't be using technical names on OSM unless that's the common name for them. Voltage is a useful bit of data. If we don't do it this way, clearly another amenity tag will be needed. I hate to start down that path because I know it will be difficult to achieve any consensus. In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. Regards Dave -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 23 May 2015 at 11:09, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 03:54:57PM +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 22 May 2015 at 15:29, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. I agree. A cascade is a waterfall in American English. Is that relevant ? ;) Is there really a problem with Americans relearning what words mean ? Actually, Merriam-Webster seems to have it right - even in American !: a small, steep waterfall; *especially* : one that is part of a series of waterfalls Although this points to an American cascades as being one part of an English cascade ! America uses 'waterfall' too - it seems 'cascade' is agreeable even if not realised! -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Am 23.05.2015 um 01:56 schrieb Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: amenity=device_charging_station socket:ac=2 socket:usb=4 (there are two types Android and Apple, but I gloss over that) socket:apple_30_pin=4 or man_made / amenity=power_outlet socket_type=usb_a socket_count=4 cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
New, yes, but increasingly common. One of my recent flights was on a 777 equipped with both electric (115 v American standard) and USB outlets. While many of those chargers you speak of John, the iPhone chargers for example, plug into a wall socket the output goes to the phone via the USB socket at the rear. @Martin, I think the two words connected with a colon is the best choice. It's already in use: socket:USB=* The standard American plug has a hard-to-remember and bulky tag socket:nema_5_15=2. It would be nice to have a simpler alternative. But then, most countries have their own scheme for naming these things and I don't see standardization coming to the world (or to OSM) anytime soon. Hell, we're still using inches and pounds over here! We probably should stick with what's already defined in the wiki. Still, if I saw a charging station advertising 120v AC, I would be quite sure what that was, and also what sort of socket it would employ. The voltage tag would be an obvious clue for data consumers. On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 2:17 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Electric outlets that have a USB-style connector, for charging cell phones and other portable devices, are fairly new. I don't recall seeing any until about a year ago. So, there is not yet a common name for them, to distinguish them from conventional electric outlets that offer only 120V AC. I have seen the USB charging kiosks in airports, but, again, am not aware of a specialized name for them. I charge my phone using a small adapter that plugs into a regular wall outlet or extension cord. On May 23, 2015 3:23:48 PM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. And I reckon for those of you who expressed concern about rendering, that part of it isn't up to me, or us, and will be resolved later. The big question is whether to expand the use of the tag so it includes devices other than vehicles. The article mentions bicycles but doesn't go into detail about bicycle charging_stations except to say There are some different types of charging stations. E-Bikes e.g. can be charged at an domestic wall socket. To my mind, that opens the door to expanding the use of the tag. Asbolutely ! Also the notion of socket:type=USB or socket:USB=* (a number of sockets or yes) seems fine. The other keys mentioned in the Wiki entry can be used just as they are in many other similar situations: fee=* operator=* access=* voltage=* opening_hours=* These stations, or in the case of the Seattle airport, entire sections of seats, have domestic wall sockets offering a way to charge laptops as well as the USB output. The tag socket:nema_5_15=* denoting is bulky to say the least but if that's the established tag for the receptacles found in American homes, then it might work here too. What do 'standard Americans' call their sockets ? We shouldn't be using technical names on OSM unless that's the common name for them. Voltage is a useful bit of data. If we don't do it this way, clearly another amenity tag will be needed. I hate to start down that path because I know it will be difficult to achieve any consensus. In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. Regards Dave -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
