Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] If a school is a shelter when a disaster happens...

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 30.12.2015 um 16:33 schrieb Dongpo Deng :
> 
> That is, we cannot simultaneously use amenity = school and amenity = 
> social_facility; social_facility = shelter for a school with shelter 
> functionality.



besides the precise tagging (social facility or emergency), I just want to 
point out that you can have 2 main tags for the same area (overlapping), just 
not on the same object. 
You could for instance have a way tagged as school and have this same way as an 
outer member for a multipoligon relation which gets the shelter tags.


Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] If a school is a shelter when a disaster happens...

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> besides the precise tagging (social facility or emergency), I just want to
> point out that you can have 2 main tags for the same area (overlapping),
> just not on the same object.
> You could for instance have a way tagged as school and have this same way
> as an outer member for a multipoligon relation which gets the shelter tags.
>

+1
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Re: [Tagging] Specifying maxweight, when different weight limits are signed

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 30.12.2015 um 19:58 schrieb Marcos Oliveira 
> :
> 
> Do you know if this is a legal limit or if being smaller makes the weight 
> less spread out which can structurally damage the bridge?


that's always legal limits, structurally it will take 2-4 times more, but you 
shouldn't go to the structural limit, and obviously also avoid deformations ;-)
These limits are besides safety considerations also set up to reduce the wear. 
Consider that cars are shorter, i.e. there fit more on it at the same time ...


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Specifying maxweight, when different weight limits are signed

[Colin Smale]

Looking at the photo in the original post, it looks like the categories
are a bit more specific than "hgv" - possibly articulated/semitrailers
vs. drawbar trailers, possibly based on the number of axles. What is the
proper/legal defintion of the vehicle categories that the symbols
represent? 

Don't know if such a thing exists in the US but in Europe we sometimes
see a limit on the weight-per-axle. Close-coupled axles (with minimal
distance between the wheels/axles) are counted as a single axle.

//colin 

On 2015-12-31 14:30, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> sent from a phone
> 
>> Am 30.12.2015 um 19:26 schrieb Jack Burke :
>> 
>> What's the right way to specify maxweight when the weight limit sign has 
>> different values for different vehicles?  Just use the highest value shown?
> 
> you should specify the maxweight for all vehicles distinctly, e.g. 
> maxweight:hgv=
> maxweight:bus=
> 
> http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/maxweight%3Ahgv
> 
> cheers,
> Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Specifying maxweight, when different weight limits are signed

[Philip Barnes]

On Thu, 2015-12-31 at 14:58 +0100, Tom Pfeifer wrote:
> Philip Barnes wrote on 2015/12/31 14:44:
> > 
> > They all seem to apply to hgv, but to me it looks like an axle
> > weight
> > limit of just over 6t, but signed in a very odd way.
> > 
> > 13 / 2 = 6.5
> > 19 / 3 = 6.
> > 25 / 4 = 6.25
> > 
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxaxleload
> > 
> > I would take the worst case and tag it as maxaxleload=6.25.
> 
> While your calculation is correct, this is what you inferred and
> not what is signposted.
> 
> Tagging what is posted on the ground is better verifiable.
> 
> We would also tag the speed in mph when signposted such and not
> the calculated/derived metric conversion.
> 
I agree there, my calculation was meant as a means of suggesting it was
axle-weight being specified, I was not intending it to be a conversion
to metric. I would expect the normal imperial/US ton suffix to added in
the US.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Tagging] Specifying maxweight, when different weight limits are signed

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 30.12.2015 um 19:26 schrieb Jack Burke :
> 
> What's the right way to specify maxweight when the weight limit sign has 
> different values for different vehicles?  Just use the highest value shown?


you should specify the maxweight for all vehicles distinctly, e.g. 
maxweight:hgv=
maxweight:bus=

http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/maxweight%3Ahgv


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Specifying maxweight, when different weight limits are signed

[Philip Barnes]

On Thu, 2015-12-31 at 14:30 +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
> > Am 30.12.2015 um 19:26 schrieb Jack Burke :
> > 
> > What's the right way to specify maxweight when the weight limit
> > sign has different values for different vehicles?  Just use the
> > highest value shown?
> 
> 
> you should specify the maxweight for all vehicles distinctly, e.g.
> maxweight:hgv=
> maxweight:bus=
> 
> http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/maxweight%3Ahgv
> 
> 
They all seem to apply to hgv, but to me it looks like an axle weight
limit of just over 6t, but signed in a very odd way.

13 / 2 = 6.5
19 / 3 = 6.
25 / 4 = 6.25

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxaxleload

I would take the worst case and tag it as maxaxleload=6.25.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: [Tagging] Specifying maxweight, when different weight limits are signed

[Colin Smale]

The Florida Trucking Manual [1] (page 10) explains the categories thus: 

_The maximum allowable weight is listed in tons beside the silhouette
for each of the three classes of vehicles._ 

_The SINGLE-UNIT TRUCK silhouette includes all straight trucks, cranes,
and other single-unit special mobile equipment regardless of the number
of axles._ 

_The TRUCK TRACTOR SEMI-TRAILER silhouette includes all truck tractor
combinations regardless of the number of axles._ 

_The SINGLE-UNIT TRUCK WITH ONE TRAILER includes all MAXI-CUBE and
TANDEM TRAILER combinations regardless of the number of axles._ 

So it is about the configuration of the vehicle and not about the number
of axles. 

As was mentioned by another poster, a ton here seems to be a "short
ton", i.e. 2000 pounds (907kg), which is not the normal imperial ton of
2240 pounds (1016kg) or the metric ton of 1000kg. Perhaps the unit
should be explicitly mentioned in the value (irrespective of which tag
is used), e.g. "25 st". 

//colin 

[1] http://www.flhsmv.gov/fhp/cve/2013TruckingManual.pdf

On 2015-12-31 14:51, Colin Smale wrote:

> Looking at the photo in the original post, it looks like the categories are a 
> bit more specific than "hgv" - possibly articulated/semitrailers vs. drawbar 
> trailers, possibly based on the number of axles. What is the proper/legal 
> defintion of the vehicle categories that the symbols represent? 
> 
> Don't know if such a thing exists in the US but in Europe we sometimes see a 
> limit on the weight-per-axle. Close-coupled axles (with minimal distance 
> between the wheels/axles) are counted as a single axle.
> 
> //colin 
> 
> On 2015-12-31 14:30, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
> Am 30.12.2015 um 19:26 schrieb Jack Burke :
> 
> What's the right way to specify maxweight when the weight limit sign has 
> different values for different vehicles?  Just use the highest value shown? 
> 
> you should specify the maxweight for all vehicles distinctly, e.g. 
> maxweight:hgv=
> maxweight:bus=
> 
> http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/maxweight%3Ahgv
> 
> cheers,
> Martin 
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[Tagging] Template:KeyDescription - implies vs. requires

[Tom Pfeifer]

I just stumbled over the KeyDescription array in
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:social_facility
which says:
"  Implies amenity=social_facility "
while the tagging instructions and examples all say to explicitly
use amenity=social_facility + social_facility=*

This was on the page from the beginning, and has been copied
to a number of value pages for social_facility=* as well,
probably a simple mistake.

The definition of the 'implies' parameter on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:KeyDescription
is just referring to the same word:
"implies: a list of tags which are implied by this tag; see below for examples"

In my understanding, 'implies' would mean it does not have to be tagged 
explicitly,
such as motorway implies access by car, while here it means that the secondary 
key
social_facility=* would _require_ the primary tag "amenity=social_facility"

I'd like to do the following:
- refine the definition on the template page, e.g.
 "implies: a list of tags/values which are assumed when absent.
   See below for examples.
   Please explicitly tag properties when there are exceptions"

- on the social_facility pages, change the "implies: amenity=social_facility"
  into "combination: ..." (on top), since that is the closest from the
  available parameters.

Further, it might be useful to introduce the parameter "requires" or "required"
to the template, which is already proposed here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template_talk:KeyDescription#Request_for_.22required.22_section
with another example being "service=driveway" requires "highway=service".

What are the consequences of adding a parameter in the template?
Is there a process to consider?
Can a new parameter break existing evaluation software?

tom

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Re: [Tagging] Specifying maxweight, when different weight limits are signed

[Tom Pfeifer]

Philip Barnes wrote on 2015/12/31 14:44:


They all seem to apply to hgv, but to me it looks like an axle weight
limit of just over 6t, but signed in a very odd way.

13 / 2 = 6.5
19 / 3 = 6.
25 / 4 = 6.25

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxaxleload

I would take the worst case and tag it as maxaxleload=6.25.


While your calculation is correct, this is what you inferred and
not what is signposted.

Tagging what is posted on the ground is better verifiable.

We would also tag the speed in mph when signposted such and not
the calculated/derived metric conversion.


tom


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[Tagging] tank barrier

[Max]

how do you tag this barrier:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/zaruka/2945111565

there are also types that are just pillars on the side of the road that
are loaded with explosives and fall on the street to block it.

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