Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

2016-07-21 Thread Dave Swarthout
I understand that. I'm  not asking for reverse engineering, only for a way
to write a style rule that appends the maxspeed tag value to the output
string that ends up being the name Garmin shows on the unit.

Let me put it another way. It seems to me that if one can use a style in
such a way to display a road name from the name tag, plus a route number
from the ref tag, then it ought to be possible for me to create a style
that will show the value of the maxspeed tag. I mean, certain of the style
directives (like the ones in my snippet) only create labels that are
referenced later when styles are actually being applied to objects during
map creation. Instead of seeing "driving on Ak 9 (Main Street)"  on my
Garmin screen I want to see "driving on Main St (Ak 9)(30 mph)".  It should
be possible to make a style rule to create that result. I'm just not clever
enough to figure out how.


On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dave,
> Garmins mapping has evolved over time. It is not open source nor do they
> release the commands etc that they use.
> So things are reverse engineered to get Garmin maps from various sources
> (including OSM).
> While maxspeed may be important for some .. it may not be high on the list
> of things to do for those doing the reverse engineering.
> So in terms of getting it on your Garmin .. not now. But maybe in the
> future.
>
>
> On 7/22/2016 6:31 AM, Gerd Petermann wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>
> "there's no known way to simply append that tag to a label or highway
> name. Correct?"
>
> no, I think that should be possible when the way has the maxspeed tag.
>
> I refered to a different feature which shows a road sign with the maxspeed
> value
>
> and also allows to warn the driver when he is faster.
>
>
> Gerd
> --
> *Von:* Dave Swarthout  
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2016 22:18:54
> *An:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> *Betreff:* Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?
>
> Thanks for the responses.
>
> I assumed because we can append ref tags to a highway name one could just
> do the same for maxspeed.  It's just another tag after all. Obviously,
> there is a lot of interplay between mkgmap and the Garmin internals that I
> don't understand.
>
> Gerd, what you're saying is that there's no known way to simply append
> that tag to a label or highway name. Correct?
>
> Dave
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Gerd Petermann <
> gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well,
>>
>>
>> the default style rules in mkgmap evaluate maxspeed to calculate a so
>> called road speed value which is used
>>
>> by the Garmin routing algo.
>>
>> But we don't know any way to store the value in the map so that it woud
>> show up in the device when you
>>
>> pass the node. I know that modern Garmin maps have this feature using so
>> called NT maps, I don't know
>>
>> any place in the older img format where this information could be stored,
>> but maybe we just didn't find
>>
>> it yet.
>>
>>
>> Gerd
>> --
>> *Von:* Paul Johnson 
>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2016 08:55:27
>> *An:* David Swarthout; Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
>> *Betreff:* Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Dave Swarthout 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I posted this on the Garmin OSM forum but nobody responded. Maybe
>>> someone here can help with this.
>>>
>>> I recently added maxspeed to many highways in my neighborhood and am
>>> looking for a way to have them display on my Garmin Montana. Mostly I would
>>> use this information while driving here and there to show me roads that
>>> don't have a maxspeed tag already. I'm looking for a style directive that
>>> will append maxspeed information to the highway-symbol and ref for the
>>> standard highway types.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not currently aware of anything in the OSM to Garmin toolchain that
>> is capable of encoding maxspeed as of yet.  As far as I'm aware, the only
>> data consumer that is using lane or speed data is Osmand at this time.
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

2016-07-21 Thread Warin

Dave,
Garmins mapping has evolved over time. It is not open source nor do they 
release the commands etc that they use.
So things are reverse engineered to get Garmin maps from various sources 
(including OSM).
While maxspeed may be important for some .. it may not be high on the 
list of things to do for those doing the reverse engineering.
So in terms of getting it on your Garmin .. not now. But maybe in the 
future.



On 7/22/2016 6:31 AM, Gerd Petermann wrote:


Hi Dave,


"there's no known way to simply append that tag to a label or highway 
name. Correct?"


no, I think that should be possible when the way has the maxspeed tag.

I refered to a different feature which shows a road sign with the 
maxspeed value


and also allows to warn the driver when he is faster.


Gerd


*Von:* Dave Swarthout 
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2016 22:18:54
*An:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
*Betreff:* Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?
Thanks for the responses.

I assumed because we can append ref tags to a highway name one could 
just do the same for maxspeed.  It's just another tag after all. 
Obviously, there is a lot of interplay between mkgmap and the Garmin 
internals that I don't understand.


Gerd, what you're saying is that there's no known way to simply append 
that tag to a label or highway name. Correct?


Dave

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Gerd Petermann 
> wrote:


Well,


the default style rules in mkgmap evaluate maxspeed to calculate a
so called road speed value which is used

by the Garmin routing algo.

But we don't know any way to store the value in the map so that it
woud show up in the device when you

pass the node. I know that modern Garmin maps have this feature
using so called NT maps, I don't know

any place in the older img format where this information could be
stored, but maybe we just didn't find

it yet.


Gerd


*Von:* Paul Johnson >
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2016 08:55:27
*An:* David Swarthout; Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
*Betreff:* Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Dave Swarthout
> wrote:

I posted this on the Garmin OSM forum but nobody responded.
Maybe someone here can help with this.

I recently added maxspeed to many highways in my neighborhood
and am looking for a way to have them display on my Garmin
Montana. Mostly I would use this information while driving
here and there to show me roads that don't have a maxspeed tag
already. I'm looking for a style directive that will append
maxspeed information to the highway-symbol and ref for the
standard highway types.


I'm not currently aware of anything in the OSM to Garmin toolchain
that is capable of encoding maxspeed as of yet. As far as I'm
aware, the only data consumer that is using lane or speed data is
Osmand at this time.

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Re: [Tagging] waterway=fairway?

2016-07-21 Thread Bryce Nesbitt
>
> On 18/07/2016 08:53, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
>> why "seamark:*"?
>>
>
> This is historical. At the beginning of nautical navigation mapping, it
> was buoys, beacons, lights, etc that were being mapped.


In effect, it can be seen as "features that should appear on a nautical
map".  A seamap rendered output will
emphasize, or mostly use, seamark features.  The convention for seamark is
to dual tag when the feature
has both a seamark and a mainline osm tag.
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Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

2016-07-21 Thread Gerd Petermann
Hi Dave,


"there's no known way to simply append that tag to a label or highway name. 
Correct?"

no, I think that should be possible when the way has the maxspeed tag.

I refered to a different feature which shows a road sign with the maxspeed value

and also allows to warn the driver when he is faster.


Gerd


Von: Dave Swarthout 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2016 22:18:54
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

Thanks for the responses.

I assumed because we can append ref tags to a highway name one could just do 
the same for maxspeed.  It's just another tag after all. Obviously, there is a 
lot of interplay between mkgmap and the Garmin internals that I don't 
understand.

Gerd, what you're saying is that there's no known way to simply append that tag 
to a label or highway name. Correct?

Dave

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Gerd Petermann 
> wrote:

Well,


the default style rules in mkgmap evaluate maxspeed to calculate a so called 
road speed value which is used

by the Garmin routing algo.

But we don't know any way to store the value in the map so that it woud show up 
in the device when you

pass the node. I know that modern Garmin maps have this feature using so called 
NT maps, I don't know

any place in the older img format where this information could be stored, but 
maybe we just didn't find

it yet.


Gerd


Von: Paul Johnson >
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2016 08:55:27
An: David Swarthout; Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Dave Swarthout 
> wrote:

I posted this on the Garmin OSM forum but nobody responded. Maybe someone here 
can help with this.

I recently added maxspeed to many highways in my neighborhood and am looking 
for a way to have them display on my Garmin Montana. Mostly I would use this 
information while driving here and there to show me roads that don't have a 
maxspeed tag already. I'm looking for a style directive that will append 
maxspeed information to the highway-symbol and ref for the standard highway 
types.

I'm not currently aware of anything in the OSM to Garmin toolchain that is 
capable of encoding maxspeed as of yet.  As far as I'm aware, the only data 
consumer that is using lane or speed data is Osmand at this time.

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Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

2016-07-21 Thread Dave Swarthout
Thanks for the responses.

I assumed because we can append ref tags to a highway name one could just
do the same for maxspeed.  It's just another tag after all. Obviously,
there is a lot of interplay between mkgmap and the Garmin internals that I
don't understand.

Gerd, what you're saying is that there's no known way to simply append that
tag to a label or highway name. Correct?

Dave

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Gerd Petermann <
gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Well,
>
>
> the default style rules in mkgmap evaluate maxspeed to calculate a so
> called road speed value which is used
>
> by the Garmin routing algo.
>
> But we don't know any way to store the value in the map so that it woud
> show up in the device when you
>
> pass the node. I know that modern Garmin maps have this feature using so
> called NT maps, I don't know
>
> any place in the older img format where this information could be stored,
> but maybe we just didn't find
>
> it yet.
>
>
> Gerd
> --
> *Von:* Paul Johnson 
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2016 08:55:27
> *An:* David Swarthout; Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> *Betreff:* Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Dave Swarthout 
> wrote:
>>
>> I posted this on the Garmin OSM forum but nobody responded. Maybe someone
>> here can help with this.
>>
>> I recently added maxspeed to many highways in my neighborhood and am
>> looking for a way to have them display on my Garmin Montana. Mostly I would
>> use this information while driving here and there to show me roads that
>> don't have a maxspeed tag already. I'm looking for a style directive that
>> will append maxspeed information to the highway-symbol and ref for the
>> standard highway types.
>>
>
> I'm not currently aware of anything in the OSM to Garmin toolchain that is
> capable of encoding maxspeed as of yet.  As far as I'm aware, the only data
> consumer that is using lane or speed data is Osmand at this time.
>
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>


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Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Tagging] reviving an abandoned proposal

2016-07-21 Thread joost schouppe
I messed up: I thought I checked all the variants mentioned in the article,
but I missed the main proposal somehow. As it's used already a couple of
100 times, I'll just adapt the article as you suggest, to reflect the
in-use character.

2016-07-21 13:00 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > Il giorno 21 lug 2016, alle ore 10:31, Tom Pfeifer <
> t.pfei...@computer.org> ha scritto:
> >
> > However, as this is just a value for the historic tag, and it is used
> 580x already, you could
> > check some of these exiting taggings if they follow the same meaning,
> and document the value
> > as being 'in use'.
>
>
> +1, this is one of the many cases, where back in 2012 wiki user Kstaden
> [1] has changed all open proposals (with no activity for some months) to
> abandoned, regardless of the tags being in use or not. I'd switch the
> proposal to draft or proposed again, ideally issuing an rfc to check
> whether there are problems, with the aim to then set it to active.
>
>
> cheers,
> Martin
>
> [1] it was hundreds and it was almost the only thing he did in the osm
> wiki:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Kstaden=Kstaden
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag: public lands that are accessed by permit?

2016-07-21 Thread me

In my view access=permit seems like they way to go. Having
access=private with permit=something adds to the complexity without
adding value. Keep it simple.


On 19/07/16 at 09:54pm, Colin Smale wrote:
> The situation in the UK is that you basically have an inalienable legal
> right to pass over a public highway (but not to stop everywhere). The
> landowner, whether that be an individual or the state, cannot deny you
> access. Motorways are not a public highway - strictly, I think they
> should be access=permissive.

It worth noting that the Situation in different parts of the UK varies,
I think you mean England and Wales above. In Scotland, we have the right
to access all land unless it’s around a private house or building. This
means that outside of populated area any path is accessible, even if you
have to climb over a gate of fence.

Cheers
Chris


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Re: [Tagging] reviving an abandoned proposal

2016-07-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 21 lug 2016, alle ore 10:31, Tom Pfeifer  
> ha scritto:
> 
> However, as this is just a value for the historic tag, and it is used 580x 
> already, you could
> check some of these exiting taggings if they follow the same meaning, and 
> document the value
> as being 'in use'.


+1, this is one of the many cases, where back in 2012 wiki user Kstaden [1] has 
changed all open proposals (with no activity for some months) to abandoned, 
regardless of the tags being in use or not. I'd switch the proposal to draft or 
proposed again, ideally issuing an rfc to check whether there are problems, 
with the aim to then set it to active.


cheers,
Martin 

[1] it was hundreds and it was almost the only thing he did in the osm wiki: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Kstaden=Kstaden



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Re: [Tagging] Fwd: How to tag: public lands that are accessed by permit?

2016-07-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 21 lug 2016, alle ore 03:56, Kevin Kenny 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> What's the process for modifying the 'accepted'
> set of values? (I presume that simply wikifying it would be regarded as
> vandalism.) 


you can either make a formal proposal or modify the wiki page, pretending you 
are just adding documentation for an already used tag (given that there are 
more than 200 of these already in the db). If nobody is contesting the 
definition you add, the second way is faster ;-), also because now it has been 
publicly discussed on the tagging ml.
A problem could arise from people having used the access=permit tag differently 
than what you are defining now, on the other hand they could have already added 
docu before to avoid it.


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_process


turns out, there are some mentions of this in the wiki:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/License
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:permit
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:access#Specific_Permits
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:access#What_should_the_tag_be_for_when_a_permit_is_required_for_access.2Fuse.3F
(and other mentions of access=permit on this talk page)
There are also some user pages mentioning it: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=access%3Dpermit=Special%3ASearch=Go

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] reviving an abandoned proposal

2016-07-21 Thread Tom Pfeifer

I'd say it depends on the depth of the decision process so far. If it was a 
failed proposal with
a voting, I'd start from scratch, avoiding the problems of the previous. There 
are a number of
"2.0" approaches.

In the case you cite, the page was last touched by the authors in 2010, and 
there was no decision
process. As the old version is always accessible in the wiki, you could develop 
it further and
provide a link in the introduction to the 2010 version.

However, as this is just a value for the historic tag, and it is used 580x 
already, you could
check some of these exiting taggings if they follow the same meaning, and 
document the value
as being 'in use'.

joost schouppe wrote on 2016/07/21 07:57:

There is an abandoned proposal about tagging hollow ways [1]. How does one go 
about reviving it?

Reviving abandoned proposals in general does not seem to be explained in the 
wiki [2] (but I'm not the best at reading doc). I would want to adapt the 
proposal with the input from the discussion. Is it OK to just adapt the 
existing page, or is there a
point at which it really becomes a new proposal?

I avoided any content about the proposal itself in this message, so as to keep 
the discussion focused. If you can't help yourself, please start a new thread 
about the example itself :)


[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/hollow_way
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_process



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Re: [Tagging] How to tag high water marks (flood marks)?

2016-07-21 Thread markus schnalke
[2016-07-20 10:45] Martin Koppenhoefer 
>
> it appears there is already this tag in use, which might cover part of what 
> you
> are after:
> monitoring:water_level

I disagree. As I understood it, monitoring:water_level is for regularily
*monitoring* of the level, whereas the tagging searched for is for markers
of exceptionell historic high water levels. Of course, sometimes the high
water marks are placed at water level monitoring stations, but often they
are placed at buildings that are quite distant from the water, to display
the impact of the high water.

IMO historic=memorial + memorial:type=plaque is the right direction.


meillo

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Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

2016-07-21 Thread Gerd Petermann
Well,


the default style rules in mkgmap evaluate maxspeed to calculate a so called 
road speed value which is used

by the Garmin routing algo.

But we don't know any way to store the value in the map so that it woud show up 
in the device when you

pass the node. I know that modern Garmin maps have this feature using so called 
NT maps, I don't know

any place in the older img format where this information could be stored, but 
maybe we just didn't find

it yet.


Gerd


Von: Paul Johnson 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Juli 2016 08:55:27
An: David Swarthout; Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Dave Swarthout 
> wrote:

I posted this on the Garmin OSM forum but nobody responded. Maybe someone here 
can help with this.

I recently added maxspeed to many highways in my neighborhood and am looking 
for a way to have them display on my Garmin Montana. Mostly I would use this 
information while driving here and there to show me roads that don't have a 
maxspeed tag already. I'm looking for a style directive that will append 
maxspeed information to the highway-symbol and ref for the standard highway 
types.

I'm not currently aware of anything in the OSM to Garmin toolchain that is 
capable of encoding maxspeed as of yet.  As far as I'm aware, the only data 
consumer that is using lane or speed data is Osmand at this time.
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Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

2016-07-21 Thread Volker Schmidt
If you only want to use it when driving a car, why not consider a cheap
Garmin car navigation device. The Lambertus maps on nuvi 55 show maxspeed,
as far as I recollect.


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Re: [Tagging] How can I display maxspeed on my Garmin?

2016-07-21 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Dave Swarthout 
wrote:
>
> I posted this on the Garmin OSM forum but nobody responded. Maybe someone
> here can help with this.
>
> I recently added maxspeed to many highways in my neighborhood and am
> looking for a way to have them display on my Garmin Montana. Mostly I would
> use this information while driving here and there to show me roads that
> don't have a maxspeed tag already. I'm looking for a style directive that
> will append maxspeed information to the highway-symbol and ref for the
> standard highway types.
>

I'm not currently aware of anything in the OSM to Garmin toolchain that is
capable of encoding maxspeed as of yet.  As far as I'm aware, the only data
consumer that is using lane or speed data is Osmand at this time.
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