Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Check your turn:lanes

[Paul Johnson]

It probably couldn't hurt, since we've definitely found a shortcoming in
the wiki definition.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Jack Burke  wrote:

> Should I bring up through;slight_right (and similar tags combinations) on
> the tagging list?  The last thing I want to do is go through 800+ miles of
> Interstate only to have someone go behind me and "fix" everything by
> removing "through" where it isn't signed.
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Here's another example of how none breaks:  http://mapillary.com/map/im/I
>> UibLmC-b_nkLkYjziO7pA
>>
>> If you're only going by signs and pavement markings without context, this
>> would be none|none|none|none leading up to the intersection, instead of
>> left|through|through|merge_to_left
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Jack Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> Paul, your examples are pretty much exactly what I've been doing, with
>>> the exception that for the last one I was using:
>>>
>>> turn:lanes=none|none|none;slight_right
>>>
>>> because of the aforementioned discussion of whether or not to use
>>> "through" without signage.
>>>
>>> --jack
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Paul Johnson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Jack Burke 
 wrote:

> So I take it that at least you and I are in agreement that the wiki is
> deficient for branching exits like this one:
> http://mapillary.com/map/im/7igAGXSa6EsUYlTIujXchw
>

 Yes, that's correct.  Moving a couple frames closer to
 http://mapillary.com/map/im/MsMAW3HKVNYxEVCtkRneBg, here's how I would
 tag three segments based on what's visible there and no other context:

 Ahead of camera after diverging ramp:

 highway=motorway
 oneway=yes
 lanes=3
 ref=I 75
 hgv:lanes=no|yes|yes

 The ramp from the physical gore (next to the exit sign) to the tip of
 the theoretical (painted) gore (with the node for the intersection being
 even with the theoretical gore):

 highway=motorway_link
 oneway=yes
 placement=transition
 lanes=1
 destination=Sycamore;Ocilla
 destination:ref=GA 32  (also, damn, had to check the minimap on that, I
 almost said MO 32 based on the shape).
 junction:ref=78

 Behind the camera:

 highway=motorway
 oneway=yes
 lanes=3
 ref=I 75
 hgv:lanes=no|yes|yes
 turn:lanes=through|through|through;slight_right

 Your Osmand "invention" example is a perfect case-study of what I'm
> working on.  I'm trying to get exits on I 75 in Georgia and Florida tagged
> with destination and lane guidance so that Osmand can show proper 
> guidance,
> and hopefully other OSM-based navigation apps will add that feature, too.
> As it stands, I use Osmand to test my tags.
>

 I've been testing this, as well.  I'm fortunate enough to live in a
 city that has nearly every kind of interchange to play with (except for
 some of the newer CFI styles, but OKC and...for like, no reason, rural
 interchanges with basically no traffic on I 40 leading into the Ouachitas
 are getting those) and well enough aware of the tagging in play to have
 seen what works and what doesn't, now.

>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Satellite visibility of archaeological sites

[Marc Gemis]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
> So - when I review an object (with no source information provided in the
> tags), and can clearly see it on bing, then would it not be useful to add
> this information to the tags, as a verification? We don't know how it was
> originally added, but the satellite view verifies this

As Tom Pfeiifer already indicated in this thread, for this type of
meta information, you also have to look at the history of the object.
When you do that, you'll see the changeset comments and tags which can
also provide valuable information on the source(s) that were used to
map a feature.

Also, in many places Bing is not providing the best or more recent
imagery, so what is the value to add
"double_checked_with_Bing2012"-tag when more recent imagery from
another provider is available ?

regards

m

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Re: [Tagging] Freeway exit tagging

[Georg Feddern]

I consider the visual lane assistance as it is named - as an assistance 
useful where there are several options.
If there is no assistance anybody who get the advice "take the exit" 
(*)  should obviously use the rightmost lane.
So even _no_ turn lane tagging would be an option for me in this (quite 
normal) case.


(*) Please do not cry "What about left-hand driving" - it is a 
right-hand example!

And any unusual left exit _should_ be tagged with lane assistance.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (midwife)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 25 ago 2016, alle ore 22:46, David Picard  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> So, my description is too specific ? What if I just drop the following 
> sentence ? It is not really meaningful, anyway.
> "In some countries, like France, a midwife is a profession on its own, not a 
> specialized nurse like e.g. in the U.S.".


yes, remove anything not needed. Examples often are counterproductive, because 
people tend to generalize them, and in this case it doesn't really matter for 
osm mapping whether your country sees them as specialized nurses or as a 
profession on its own, how much they earn or how long you have to study etc. 
You will tag a midwife (s office? practice?) when they can be considered 
midwifes according to the situation in your country.


> 
> Also, about rendering : here in France, midwives in hospitals/clinics usually 
> wear a pink suit. So, I guess the doctor symbol could be used if changed from 
> red to pink. What do you think ?


-1, this is likely specific to France and will not be understood elsewhere 


cheers,
Martin 
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[Tagging] overtaking traffic_sign

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone


just noticed that someone has put a list of human readable traffic sign values 
in the wiki, what I generally appreciate. 

I believe there is an issue with the value "overtaking" which shows a "no 
overtaking" sign (according to taginfo this value is ~300 times in use, while 
no_overtaking is only used once).

For reference, this is the sign in the wiki: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Zeichen_276.svg


and this would be the logical replacement for the "overtaking" value:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_of_Germany#/media/File%3AZeichen_280.svg

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign#Human-readable_values


What do you think? Can we replace the picture? Should we suggest to use 
traffic_sign=no_overtaking for the currently displayed sign?

cheers,
Martin 
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[Tagging] Freeway exit tagging

[Jack Burke]

Freeway exit tagging


I am totally confused.

What is the proper method to use turn:lanes to tag freeway lanes
approaching an exit, where the exit branches directly from an edge lane
without being part of the freeway itself, but the freeway lanes are not
signed with an arrow, such as this one?
http://mapillary.com/map/im/7igAGXSa6EsUYlTIujXchw

Through examples[1], the wiki shows that when the freeway lanes *are*
signed, then "through;slight_right" appears to be the correct value.  The
wiki examples also appear to indicate that "through" is *only* appropriate
when there is corresponding signage.  The wiki is also very clear what to
do when an edge lane is an exit-only lane ("slight_right"), and what to do
when a lane is signed for both through and right turn ("through;right").
So what's the right thing to use when there is no "through" indicator, yet
there is an upcoming branching exit?  By inference from what's contained in
the wiki, "none;slight_right" appears to be the appropriate value, but it
looks like a lot of people are disagreeing with that[2], even though it
appears to be the only logical conclusion.  Others think that
"through;slight_right" should be used because it's the reality on the
ground[2] despite the lack of paint/signs.

I'm bringing this up because I'm trying to get exits on I 75 in Georgia and
Florida tagged with destination and lane guidance (though only one
navigation app processes lane guidance AFAIK, but I hope that by adding the
data, others will take it up, too), and don't want to waste my time tagging
it incorrectly.  One helpful group trying to fix what they consider
incorrect lane counts & tags, turned a bunch of my continue-or-exit lanes
tagged with "none;slight_right" into exit-only lanes[3] with just
"slight_right".  I'm worried about switching to "through;slight_right"
because I don't want some *other* do-gooder coming along later and
similarly breaking lane guidance because there's no arrow on the ground or
on a sign.  Thus, I am now at a standstill because there doesn't appear to
be any correct tagging scheme for this incredibly common situation.

Note:  I am intentionally leaving the proposal for "transit:lanes" out of
this, both because it hasn't been voted on, as well as it doesn't appear to
cover this situation any better than turn:lanes does.

--jack



References:

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:turn

[2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016-June/029335.html

[3]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2016-August/016643.html
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (midwife)

[David Picard]

Hi,

So, my description is too specific ? What if I just drop the following 
sentence ? It is not really meaningful, anyway.
"In some countries, like France, a midwife is a profession on its own, 
not a specialized nurse like e.g. in the U.S.".


Also, about rendering : here in France, midwives in hospitals/clinics 
usually wear a pink suit. So, I guess the doctor symbol could be used if 
changed from red to pink. What do you think ?


Cheers,
David.

Le 23/08/2016 02:02, David Bannon a écrit :

David, I am very sorry to only comment after you have gone to the vote,
very rude of me !

But I have been away, quite remote and very poor internet access, big
backlog of unread mail.

David, my partner is a midwife but of the "specialist nurse" variety.
What concerns us is how this tag will be used in parts of the world that
have a different midwife model. Here in Australia, midwives generally
work from, typically, hospitals or clinics and offer a reduced range of
services.

I think some advice needs to be given in the proposal on how to use it
in places that don't fit your description. Either

* "don't use it" or

* "use it but map users need be aware that services may not be as
described."

I suspect the first is a better option.

David

On 23/08/16 06:29, David Picard wrote:

The vote is open for :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/midwife

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Re: [Tagging] Casing in values

[markus schnalke]

[2016-08-25 10:51] "Jerry Clough (SK53)" 
> On 25/08/2016 08:47, markus schnalke wrote:
> > snip
> > Is it the same for genus=Tilia, i.e. should it be genus=tilia?
> >
> > (Recently iD started to tab-complete it in lowercase, even if I
> > started to type it in uppercase.)
> 
> This has just been pointed out to me. I've filed an issue with iD on 
> Github: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/3377
> 
> At the moment the bulk of values in Genus are sensible & according with 
> Botanical nomenclature, so let's keep it that way!

Okay, thanks.


> I'm not sure if there is a single good worldwide open source of plant 
> genera. The obvious candidate is The Plant List, but this is
> closed, see Roderic Page's blog post: 
> http://iphylo.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/plant-list-nice-data-shame-it-not-open.html

I use http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wetter_Baum for tagging trees,
it's in German, however.


meillo

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Re: [Tagging] Casing in values

[Jerry Clough (SK53)]

On 25/08/2016 08:47, markus schnalke wrote:

snip
Is it the same for genus=Tilia, i.e. should it be genus=tilia?

(Recently iD started to tab-complete it in lowercase, even if I
started to type it in uppercase.)

meillo



This has just been pointed out to me. I've filed an issue with iD on 
Github: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/3377


At the moment the bulk of values in Genus are sensible & according with 
Botanical nomenclature, so let's keep it that way!


I'm not sure if there is a single good worldwide open source of plant 
genera. The obvious candidate is The Plant List, but this is
closed, see Roderic Page's blog post: 
http://iphylo.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/plant-list-nice-data-shame-it-not-open.html


Jerry

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Re: [Tagging] Casing in values (was: Multiple values for one key - the cuisine problem.)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 25 ago 2016, alle ore 09:47, markus schnalke  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> Is it the same for genus=Tilia, i.e. should it be genus=tilia?


no, because that's a freeform text, like name (actually in this case it might 
be disputable, because the list of genus is finite, but being quite long and 
not documented in the wiki I would treat it like the names or operators)

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Casing in values (was: Multiple values for one key - the cuisine problem.)

[markus schnalke]

[2016-08-25 09:15] Martin Koppenhoefer 
> > Il giorno 25 ago 2016, alle ore 06:18, André Pirard 
> >  ha scritto:
> > 
> > I saw that the OSM people are very picky about correct spelling.
> 
> formal values are without capitalization in osm

Is it the same for genus=Tilia, i.e. should it be genus=tilia?

(Recently iD started to tab-complete it in lowercase, even if I
started to type it in uppercase.)


meillo

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Re: [Tagging] Multiple values for one key - the cuisine problem.

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 25 ago 2016, alle ore 06:18, André Pirard 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> I saw that the OSM people are very picky about correct spelling.


formal values are without capitalization in osm


cheers,
Martin 
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