Re: [Tagging] Mapping freeway stub ends?

[John F. Eldredge]

In some cases, the distinction between "abandoned" and "on indefinite hold" 
can be a bit blurry. One ring road here in Nashville, TN, USA was left in 
an incomplete state for about twenty years before the politicians finally 
allocated the money, and the last segment of the road was built.




On February 27, 2017 1:09:03 PM Kevin Kenny  
wrote:



On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:


For the above situation, I'd tag it as highway=construction,
construction=* and abandoned=yes since it was abandoned under
construction...




Hmm. I'm reluctant to use different lifecycle
 stages for the same
object.
How relevant is it to map the fact that it skipped 'present' and 'disused'
and went directly to 'abandoned' from 'construction'? Is that fact visible
on the ground and important?

Example near me: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/36835272 is a
motorway link that was abandoned during construction. Construction
never began for the associated motorway, which would have run
northwest into the airport. The link was repurposed as the ring road
surrounding an office park, which therefore enjoys a disproportionately
large motorway interchange combined with very poor access to the
local surface streets.

I found no reason to tag the history of the road. It's the ring road of
an office park now.

Random trivia: There was infighting among agencies of the state
government regarding the proposal. Part of the reason for building
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6121261 where it stands
was that it was then the offices of the Conservation Department,
and was sited to block the proposed route. In a supreme irony,
the Transportation Department now occupies the building. In the
last fifty years, enough development has taken place that it
would not be feasible to route a motorway through there. At
the time of the proposal, which was finally abandoned in 1970,
the area of the proposed route was mostly swamp land.



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Re: [Tagging] Potential proposal for more detail in old_ref=*?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-02-27 23:21 GMT+01:00 Frederik Ramm :

> For OpenStreetMap, one key component of "conflict avoidance" is our rule
> of on-the-ground verifiability. With some very well defined exceptions
> (e.g. administrative boundaries), we only map things that yuo can verify
> by going there and looking. So if two people disagree whether the road
> is called A or B, you just go there and look at the road sign (or send
> someone to look, or check Mapillary or OpenStreetCam if you're lucky).
>



+1
regarding the tag: "old_ref", here's my usecase.
The maintenance of specific roads around here get's shifted from time to
time from one goverment body to another, e.g. from the national body to a
regional body, and this implies also that the refs change. Now while this
would in theory require all signs to be changed, in practise it can happen
that signs get not changed or get partially changed (even after 15 years
you can still find a significant amount of old signs in some places, even
half and more of the signs).

There are several possibilities and this is how we deal with it:

1.
signs (and milestones etc.) not changed at all:
- current (official) ref (not signed) gets into the "offical_ref" tag
- the signed ref (not valid but the only present) gets into the "ref" tag
(because this is what you see when you go there)

2.
parts of the signs changed/new signs added but old signs remaining:
- current official ref gets tagged in "ref"
- former ref (still partially signed) goes in "old_ref"

3.
all signs changed, old signs removed
only "ref" is tagged.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Potential proposal for more detail in old_ref=*?

[Richard]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 02:46:45PM -0500, Albert Pundt wrote:
> The old_ref=* key seems to be used a lot for any previous designation of a
> road, even decades before. Often a road will have had different
> designations over the years. For example, I-676 in Philadelphia was
> initially designated I-80S from 1957 to 1958, followed by I-895 from 1958
> to 1960, I-76 from 1960 to 1974, and today I-676 since 1974. There's no
> good way that I know of to represent all this.

Disregarding the issue whether this belongs to the main database you may
want to look at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Date_namespace
and join the discussion there.

Richard

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