Re: [Tagging] Feature request - nascar=*

[Richard Welty]

On 11/19/17 7:07 PM, ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> I also noticed that. In fact the example given in the proposal
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/25.45387/-80.40864 is the
> Homestead-Miami Speedway which hosts not just Nascar but a whole range
> of different events by different companies and sponsors,(IndyCar
> Series, Sports Car Championships see
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead-Miami_Speedway). So the
> facilities at the race track would be used by all of these events and
> not just for Nascar.
>
>  
>
> They should be tagged as parts of the race track and not as the
> operator of only one single event that takes place there.
>
this is correct. NASCAR is a sanctioning body that does not directly own any
race tracks. if we wanted to tag sanctioning bodies it would need to be a
separate tagging scheme. since sanctioning body/track relationships can be
quite fluid, it's a very poor candidate for tagging in OSM.

we already have fairly functional tagging for race circuits. i could
imagine some
tweaks but i don't think we really need this.

richard

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Re: [Tagging] Feature request - nascar=*

[Marc Gemis]

Can you explain the difference between a F1 pit stall an a Nascar one ?
I don't understand why all those elements have to be placed in the
nascar namespace.
I would expect a more general tag that can also be used for other
organisations of car races

regards

m.

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Kurzov Productions
 wrote:
> Hello, subscribers of the tagging mailing list...
>
> I have created a feature proposal in order to more easily map motorsports
> tracks, most specifically NASCAR tracks.
>
> A link can be found here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/nascar.
>
> Although this is not a formal RFC, I would like some feedback regarding
> this.
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~ James Mills / Yoshinion
>
> (P.S. - I am sorry if this is duplicated. I am not sure if my earlier email
> went through.)
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature request - nascar=*

[ralph.aytoun]

I also noticed that. In fact the example given in the proposal 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/25.45387/-80.40864 is the Homestead-Miami 
Speedway which hosts not just Nascar but a whole range of different events by 
different companies and sponsors,(IndyCar Series, Sports Car Championships see  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead-Miami_Speedway). So the facilities at 
the race track would be used by all of these events and not just for Nascar. 

They should be tagged as parts of the race track and not as the operator of 
only one single event that takes place there.

Regards

Ralph

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave F
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 10:41 PM
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature request - nascar=*

Isn't nascar a private company not a 'sport'? Similar to the touring circus 
that is Formula1?

Aren't the tracks used by other racing categories?

On 19/11/2017 19:10, Kurzov Productions wrote:
Hello, subscribers of the tagging mailing list...

I have created a feature proposal in order to more easily map motorsports 
tracks, most specifically NASCAR tracks.

A link can be found here: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/nascar.

Although this is not a formal RFC, I would like some feedback regarding this.

Thanks!

~ James Mills / Yoshinion

(P.S. - I am sorry if this is duplicated. I am not sure if my earlier email 
went through.)



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Re: [Tagging] Feature request - nascar=*

[Dave F]

Isn't nascar a private company not a 'sport'? Similar to the touring 
circus that is Formula1?


Aren't the tracks used by other racing categories?


On 19/11/2017 19:10, Kurzov Productions wrote:

Hello, subscribers of the tagging mailing list...

I have created a feature proposal in order to more easily map 
motorsports tracks, most specifically NASCAR tracks.


A link can be found here: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/nascar 
.


Although this is not a formal RFC, I would like some feedback 
regarding this.


Thanks!

~ James Mills / Yoshinion

(P.S. - I am sorry if this is duplicated. I am not sure if my earlier 
email went through.)



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[Tagging] Feature request - nascar=*

[Kurzov Productions]

Hello, subscribers of the tagging mailing list...

I have created a feature proposal in order to more easily map motorsports
tracks, most specifically NASCAR tracks.

A link can be found here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/
Proposed_features/nascar.

Although this is not a formal RFC, I would like some feedback regarding
this.

Thanks!

~ James Mills / Yoshinion

(P.S. - I am sorry if this is duplicated. I am not sure if my earlier email
went through.)
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Re: [Tagging] Variable Message Signs on Highways

[yo paseopor]

I think it is an interesting question. I explain my opinion about that.
Instead of being about one kind of information, as their name its called
variable it is not possible to determine in all cases what exact
information you will have from them. But you can map about the types
because of the kind of panel you are mapping. In the PDF file  above you
can see a lot of variable signs with one kind of information only.

Here in Spain variable information big panels are ES:S800 / S810 as you can
see in https://www.boe.es/legislacion/codigos/abrir_pdf.
php?fich=020_Codigo_de_Trafico_y_Seguridad_Vial.pdf (Spanish traffic law).
As the Spanish government (Ministerio de Fomento) give us an inventory with
all the traffic signs in their roads Spanish government handle this as a
"normal trafic sign" with the only observation it is electrical or variable.

For panels with variable speed I would use

traffic:sign:forward=ES:R301
maxspeed:forward=variable
side=right

As you cannot define the exact information you will get through the panel I
think you can use the https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/
Extended_traffic_signs_tagging to describe the panel itself and considers
it a traffic sign.

For big panels with unspecific target of the information:

traffic_sign:forward=ES:S800
side=up
Other info you want

I hope it will be useful this approach.

Salut i senyals de transit variable (Health and variable traffic signs)
yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Erkin Alp Güney]

They prepare for academic exams but a cram school's purpose of existence
is not actual academic education. They do not teach, they cram, just as
their name implies. They employ various preparation for multiple-choice
or other tests and memorization techniques for "mastering" these tests.
A language school is a cram school if it is focused solely on exam
preparation(education=cram-school), it is not if properly teaches the
language(education=specialty). Schools providing occupational
certification with no government recognition or title should also be
considered cram schools, because they lack actual academic objective.
How do I know this? I have attended multiple cram schools for
approximately ten years whilst having compulsory formal education in
regular schools. Specialty schools, on the other hand, have actual
academic objectives on the subject they teach.


19-11-2017 15:03 tarihinde José G Moya Y. yazdı:
> You are right, I meaned *specialty schools*. Somehow I mixed lines in
> my copt-paste.
>
> But the definition, as it appears in the proposal, keeps being
> confusing, since you include "exam preparation but not cramming" into
> specialty schools. Cramming is some kind of exam preparation, so maybe
> you should say something like "preparation for speciality exams".
>
> I understand you say that speciality schools include (but are not
> limited to) schools that prepare for professional exam (such as
> Spanish goverment "oposiciones", Microsoft Certification, American
> TOEFL... ). 
> On the other hand, cram schools prepare for academic exams (access to
> higschool, university or college). 
> Am I right this time? 
>
> I think that adding more examples to your proposal would be nice.
>
> El 19/11/2017 7:34, "Erkin Alp Güney"  > escribió:
>
> You have conflated test centers and specialty schools. Test
> centers, as
> in my proposal, focus exclusively on _performing_ the standardised
> tests. I do not know where in the world we have these, but we have a
> government-operated one in Ankara, Turkey (ÖSYM computer-based
> examination building). Cram schools, on the other hand, cram something
> or prepare for an exam without having an academic objective otherwise.
> Specialty schools are what the name says.
>
>
> 19-11-2017 01:52 tarihinde Steve Doerr yazdı:
> > On 18/11/2017 22:31, José G Moya Y. wrote:
> >> The proposal says:
> >>
> >>     education=testcenter -
> >>
> >
> > If it does, then it needs to be adapted to the convention of using
> > British English spelling: the 'center' bit should be 'centre'. And I
> > can't imagine anyone in the UK writing 'testcentre' as a single
> word.
> > I think it would normally be 'test centre', so the tag value
> should be
> > test_centre.
> >
> > --
> > Steve
>
Yours, faithfully
Erkin Alp

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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Yves]

I think a bit like Simon and Christoph, but if the goal is to vote on the 
opportunity of a reform, I'd stay open about the final scheme. 
Yves 

Le 19 novembre 2017 12:19:48 GMT+01:00, Simon Poole  a écrit :
>
>[Christoph pressed send before I did, sigh]
>
>While I'm a bit undecided on if we need an education reform at all and
>you need to make clear what the voting is actually on, the underlying
>proposal is far from ready for any kind of vote or usage at this point
>in time.
>
>You need to at least provide a reasonably thorough treatment of how
>existing tagging should be mapped to your new scheme and give some
>rationale why you are lumping in non-educational facilities (see
>educational=nursery).
>
>Simon
>
>
>Am 18.11.2017 um 19:05 schrieb Erkin Alp Güney:
>> I am offering this proposal into voting as no replies arrived since
>last
>> month.
>>
>> Yours, faithfully
>> Erkin Alp
>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[José G Moya Y .]

You are right, I meaned *specialty schools*. Somehow I mixed lines in my
copt-paste.

But the definition, as it appears in the proposal, keeps being confusing,
since you include "exam preparation but not cramming" into specialty
schools. Cramming is some kind of exam preparation, so maybe you should say
something like "preparation for speciality exams".

I understand you say that speciality schools include (but are not limited
to) schools that prepare for professional exam (such as Spanish goverment
"oposiciones", Microsoft Certification, American TOEFL... ).
On the other hand, cram schools prepare for academic exams (access to
higschool, university or college).
Am I right this time?

I think that adding more examples to your proposal would be nice.







El 19/11/2017 7:34, "Erkin Alp Güney"  escribió:

You have conflated test centers and specialty schools. Test centers, as
in my proposal, focus exclusively on _performing_ the standardised
tests. I do not know where in the world we have these, but we have a
government-operated one in Ankara, Turkey (ÖSYM computer-based
examination building). Cram schools, on the other hand, cram something
or prepare for an exam without having an academic objective otherwise.
Specialty schools are what the name says.


19-11-2017 01:52 tarihinde Steve Doerr yazdı:
> On 18/11/2017 22:31, José G Moya Y. wrote:
>> The proposal says:
>>
>> education=testcenter -
>>
>
> If it does, then it needs to be adapted to the convention of using
> British English spelling: the 'center' bit should be 'centre'. And I
> can't imagine anyone in the UK writing 'testcentre' as a single word.
> I think it would normally be 'test centre', so the tag value should be
> test_centre.
>
> --
> Steve
>
> 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Simon Poole]

[Christoph pressed send before I did, sigh]

While I'm a bit undecided on if we need an education reform at all and
you need to make clear what the voting is actually on, the underlying
proposal is far from ready for any kind of vote or usage at this point
in time.

You need to at least provide a reasonably thorough treatment of how
existing tagging should be mapped to your new scheme and give some
rationale why you are lumping in non-educational facilities (see
educational=nursery).

Simon


Am 18.11.2017 um 19:05 schrieb Erkin Alp Güney:
> I am offering this proposal into voting as no replies arrived since last
> month.
>
> Yours, faithfully
> Erkin Alp
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Education Reform

[Christoph Hormann]

On Saturday 18 November 2017, Erkin Alp Gc3bcney wrote:
> I am offering this proposal into voting as no replies arrived since
> last month.

I just had a look over your draft and i like your approach although as 
others have said it is not quite clear why the change is needed for 
many established, well defined and undisputed tags like 
amenity=university.

But at the moment it is not quite clear to me which part people are 
supposed to vote on - i.e. the "Vote on idea of an educational reform" 
part or the "Vote on the proposal".

In case of the latter i think it would be good to elaborate on the list 
of values and provide an equality diagram for the new tags and existing 
educational amenity=* tags - like is education=school equivalent in 
meaning to amenity=school or should some existing amenity=school get a 
different tag.  It would also be good to provide a clear 'upgrade path' 
to all widely used educational amenity tags - in particular 
amenity=college seems to be currently not covered by your proposal.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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