Re: [Tagging] landuse for government offices ?

[Joseph Eisenberg]

 It would be good to write up a proposal and pick a tag. Landuse=civic and
landuse=public_admin have been used. I recall civic_centre as a value too.

In the USA it is common for government buildings to be grouped in one area,
possibly including those of different admin_levels like municipal, county
and State (levels 4, 6 and 8) in the same area.

Perhaps this is not as common in Britain and Europe? It is also common in
South and Central America and Southeast Asia to have big areas of
government offices together, so it makes some sense to distinguish this
from normal commercial landuse.

On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 8:36 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 17. Sep 2018, at 23:59, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
> >
> > My choice is landuse=public or landuse=government. Neither are listed on
> the wiki page {1]. landuse=public has been used 300 times and with other
> extensions to public like public_administration it has over 400 uses.
>
>
> landuse=public is completely unspecific and not clear and can mean a lot
> of things, for village greens it would fit;-)
> If you mean to map land used for public administration, I suggest it
> should be spelled out.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] landuse for government offices ?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 17. Sep 2018, at 23:59, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> 
> My choice is landuse=public or landuse=government. Neither are listed on the 
> wiki page {1]. landuse=public has been used 300 times and with other 
> extensions to public like public_administration it has over 400 uses.


landuse=public is completely unspecific and not clear and can mean a lot of 
things, for village greens it would fit;-)
If you mean to map land used for public administration, I suggest it should be 
spelled out.

Cheers,
Martin


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Re: [Tagging] maxspeed:type vs source:maxspeed // StreetComplete

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 4:42 PM Tobias Zwick  wrote:

> In order to find an optimal and future proof tagging schema for default
> speed limits, I believe that first extensive research have to be done to
> find out what exists in the world, what has to be considered. Also, for
> default speed limits to be actually used and understood by data
> consumers, meta information needs to be collected about how to translate
> road types to actual default speeds per vehicle type for each
> country/region.
> I started this (both) here, if you want to help, you are welcome:
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits


This is a Sisyphean task even by OSM standards.

Just in my state, Oklahoma, there's 597 towns, 77 counties and at least 2
councils of governments (a regional government type thing between multiple
cities), for about 46,000 possible sets of default rules.  In *one state*,
and a rural one at that.  Out of 50.
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Re: [Tagging] landuse for government offices ?

[Clifford Snow]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 10:34 AM OSMDoudou <
19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The "landuse=commercial" page [1] says "area may consists of offices,
> administration", whereas the "landuse" page [2] says "Government services
> and businesses should not use this tag".
>
> How to tag a piece of land where governmental several office buildings are
> situated ?
>
> My choice is landuse=public or landuse=government. Neither are listed on
the wiki page {1]. landuse=public has been used 300 times and with other
extensions to public like public_administration it has over 400 uses.
landuse=government and other extensions have been used 177 times.
Government facilities, at least in the US, comprise a significant amount of
real estate. They should be separated as such.

A tagging scheme could include landuse=public + public=admin_level_2 -
admin_level_10 (to normalize terms between countries)

Either fit in with other landuse times, like religious, military, school,
etc. (It doesn't fit with landuse=grass - but lets stay off that mess)

They may not render, but that just a rendering decision.

Best,
Clifford


-- 
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osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Tagging] maxspeed:type vs source:maxspeed // StreetComplete

[Tobias Zwick]

Interesting. But I do think that this person is right.

My research so far showed that neither source:maxspeed nor maxspeed:type
nor any of the other variants sufficiently cover the topic of default
speed limits (see last paragraphs).
So, it makes little sense to migrate to a solution that is perhaps a
little better than source:maxspeed but will not be the final word on it.

In the meantime, while it is of course not optimal, I do not find it is
such a big problem that source:maxspeed, maxspeed:type, traffic:zone
etc. are all used in parallel and basically mean the same thing because
the scheme for the values is all the same, only the keys are different.
Data users have little implementation effort to understand all of them.

In order to find an optimal and future proof tagging schema for default
speed limits, I believe that first extensive research have to be done to
find out what exists in the world, what has to be considered. Also, for
default speed limits to be actually used and understood by data
consumers, meta information needs to be collected about how to translate
road types to actual default speeds per vehicle type for each
country/region.
I started this (both) here, if you want to help, you are welcome:
   https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits

I did intend to write a proposal about how the current scheme(s) are not
sufficient and what else I'd propose, after the research is done. But
since I mentioned it already in this mail, let me link a post in the
German forum where I recently touched on this subject by giving some
examples:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.openstreetmap.org%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fpid%3D715500%23p715500&edit-text=&act=url
(Google translation)

Perhaps, everybody can get on the same page this way because I think it
is not well known that source:maxspeed/maxspeed:type is challenged to be
sufficient and why.

Cheers
Tobias

On 17/09/2018 21:18, marc marc wrote:
> Le 17. 09. 18 à 20:35, Georg Feddern a écrit :
>> Am 17.09.2018 um 16:17 schrieb Florian Lohoff:
>>> is it intentional that StreetComplete tags the maxspeed source/type in
>>> maxspeed:type instead of the much more used source:maxspeed?
>>
>> If you search the german forum you will find that it is indeed intentional:
>> StreetComplete wird maxspeed:type taggen by westnordost
> 
> that look like a grea idea and the opportunity to fix that :
> source:maxspeed is not a source, it's more like a traffic sign type.
> I proposed a mechanical edition to migrate this in France where many 
> contributors have already been using maxspeed:type for years. 
> unfortunately for the moment the operation is blocked because everyone 
> agrees except one person and the mechanical editions require unanimity.
> note that the person against the operation is against it because he 
> would like us to go even further to correct the imperfections and 
> unnecessary recondancy in some maxspeed:type
> 
> Regards,
> Marc
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Re: [Tagging] landuse for government offices ?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 at 03:35, OSMDoudou <
19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote:

> The "landuse=commercial" page [1] says "area may consists of offices,
> administration", whereas the "landuse" page [2] says "Government services
> and businesses should not use this tag".
>

Hi

Personally, I can't see why it should say that as to my mind they would
still be commercial areas?

Discussion on the landuse page does actually mention landuse=institutional
for Govt areas, so that's a possible answer, however it appears that it
doesn't render.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dinstitutional


Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Draft Proposal: Default Langauge Format

[Yuri Astrakhan]

WRT dauflt_language key -- the problem it tries to solve is that rendering
software needs to know the language of the "name" tag. OSM editor shouldn't
tell the renderer what to use, they should give all the data available, and
let renderer developers choose what they need for the specific usecase, and
specific user.  Using multiple languages inside a single "name" tag is
presumptuous because it assumes all users will want to see multiple
languages for a single location.  Edit wars go a bit beyond this -- e.g.
there could be a political conflict even inside one language. Ideally the
data should reflect all such choices, and the "name" tag should simply be
ignored, but that's just wishful thinking? :)

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 4:04 PM Yves  wrote:

> Definitely, I'd rather have local languages mapped rather than the
> language the renderer 'should' use.
> To try to convince you, say there is an edit war going on names...
> Yves
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Re: [Tagging] Draft Proposal: Default Langauge Format

[Yves]

Definitely, I'd rather have local languages mapped rather than the language the 
renderer 'should' use.
To try to convince you, say there is an edit war going on names... 
Yves 
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Re: [Tagging] maxspeed:type vs source:maxspeed // StreetComplete

[marc marc]

Le 17. 09. 18 à 20:35, Georg Feddern a écrit :
> Am 17.09.2018 um 16:17 schrieb Florian Lohoff:
>> is it intentional that StreetComplete tags the maxspeed source/type in
>> maxspeed:type instead of the much more used source:maxspeed?
> 
> If you search the german forum you will find that it is indeed intentional:
> StreetComplete wird maxspeed:type taggen by westnordost

that look like a grea idea and the opportunity to fix that :
source:maxspeed is not a source, it's more like a traffic sign type.
I proposed a mechanical edition to migrate this in France where many 
contributors have already been using maxspeed:type for years. 
unfortunately for the moment the operation is blocked because everyone 
agrees except one person and the mechanical editions require unanimity.
note that the person against the operation is against it because he 
would like us to go even further to correct the imperfections and 
unnecessary recondancy in some maxspeed:type

Regards,
Marc
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Re: [Tagging] maxspeed:type vs source:maxspeed // StreetComplete

[Georg Feddern]

Am 17.09.2018 um 16:17 schrieb Florian Lohoff:

is it intentional that StreetComplete tags the maxspeed source/type in
maxspeed:type instead of the much more used source:maxspeed?


If you search the german forum you will find that it is indeed intentional:
StreetComplete wird maxspeed:type taggen by westnordost
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[Tagging] landuse for government offices ?

[OSMDoudou]

Hello,

The "landuse=commercial" page [1] says "area may consists of offices,
administration", whereas the "landuse" page [2] says "Government services
and businesses should not use this tag".

How to tag a piece of land where governmental several office buildings are
situated ?

For example, a set of Service Public Fédéral (SPF) buildings, which are
government offices. [3]

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse=commercial
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:landuse
[3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.44476/3.95168


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[Tagging] maxspeed:type vs source:maxspeed // StreetComplete

[Florian Lohoff]

Hi,
is it intentional that StreetComplete tags the maxspeed source/type in
maxspeed:type instead of the much more used source:maxspeed?

1.2 Mio
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=source%3Amaxspeed

230K
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=maxspeed%3Atype

Wiki menttions maxspeed:type mostly in use in the UK.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
 UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away


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[Tagging] Draft Proposal: Default Langauge Format

[Joseph Eisenberg]

I've started a Draft Proposal page
for
this language format tag, based on our discussion here. It still needs more
links and rendering examples, plus your comments

The draft proposal outline:

Specify the default language format used for name labels and tags. This tag
shows the default language and script that should be used to display name
labels on an international map. By avoiding the use of the default *name=* *tag
for the display of name lables, this proposal will encourage the use of
name tags that include the language code, thereby improving the quality and
utility of the database.

The key *language:default *with the 2 or 3 letter ISO language code as
value should be tagged on administrative boundary relations, such as
countries, provinces and aboriginal communities to clarify the default
language used for the majority of default *name=**tags within a particular
region or settlement. If multiple scripts may be used for the language, a
qualifier may be added to specify the script format. Multiple languages can
be specified, separated with a semicolon, for an administrative boundary or
place if the local community has decided to include more than one name in
the default name label and wishes general map rendering to display more
than one name.

The language:default tag will be applied to the largest existing boundary
relation that accurately represents the language used for default names.
When a smaller administrative boundary has different default language
format, this boundary should receive a language tag as well. This would
include boundaries of aboriginal lands and municipalities where a different
regional or local language is dominant.

The language:default tag may also be applied to individual objects when the
language format of the object's name is different than the default for the
region, for example when the common name for a feature is in a language
foreign to the region, or in a rarely used local language.

If name tags commonly include additional local or official languages in a
region or settlement, in addition to the default language format, the
boundary or place may be tagged with language:local=* and
language:official=* to specifiy the other languages commonly used. More
than one official or local language can by specified in the value by use of
a semicolon as a divider. However, the default language should always be
specified when verifiable, to reduce the need to tag individual map
features.

See the Proposal Page

for all the details including futher rational, tagging format, examples,
possible errors, wiki pages that will be updated, etc.:

wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Default_Language_Format
Thanks for your suggested improvements and comments!
- Joseph Eisenberg

>
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