On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 at 09:09, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
>
> what I wanted to say is that you need to know all possible values to make
> sense of a range, while you need no knowledge about possible values to get
> the information from a list.
>
I can see what you're getting at, but under that
First. What is to be mapped?
The presence of animals?
Or
The animal output of a agricultural feature?
Once I have that answer I can respond to that issue rather than provide
multiple answers that confuse.
The first post talks of both presence and output, while the subject says
presence.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:23 PM Peter Elderson wrote:
> Well, the simple version I got from bicycle route mappers is: members in
> the main direction have no roles. The fact that there is a role tells you
> it’s a way for the opposite direction, and then forward tells you the
> opposite travel
On 20/08/19 00:11, Kevin Kenny wrote:
(Summary: What do the data *consumers* want to see in the tagging for
route alternatives, circular routes, and routes that begin and end on
dual carriageways?)
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 3:47 AM Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
We do happen to have a clear rule for
Re: produce,
It's much harder for a mapper to find out if a herd of goats is used
to produce milk, meat or cheese than to just tag "there are goats
here", even if you are doing a local survey. Unless the farm has a
sign like "Farmer Joe's Eggs", it's not easy to tell if chickens are
raised for
Well, the simple version I got from bicycle route mappers is: members in the
main direction have no roles. The fact that there is a role tells you it’s a
way for the opposite direction, and then forward tells you the opposite travel
direction goes against the mapped direction of that member
sent from a phone
> On 20. Aug 2019, at 00:54, Andrew Davidson wrote:
>
> Is there a ISCED level 1A?
maybe not, or not currently (they could introduce them at some point), what I
wanted to say is that you need to know all possible values to make sense of a
range, while you need no
> Volker Schmidt het volgende geschreven:
>
>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 15:40, Peter Elderson wrote:
>> Ideally, you should not have to create gpx-s from them and you should need
>> no ordering or routing at all, because they ARE the routes. An app or
>> gps-device should use them as is, just
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:22 AM Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
> they are not the same. 0-2 could also be the same as 0;1A;1B;2
>
>
Is there a ISCED level 1A?
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:05 PM Volker Schmidt wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 15:21, Kevin Kenny wrote:
>> ... when the forward/backward roles do not indicate the direction of travel,
>> as is the case with bicycle routes.
That was Peter Elderson, not me, so I'll defer to him for an answer to
sent from a phone
> On 20. Aug 2019, at 00:06, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
> End of the day, it's easy for a computer to read "0-2" and "0 to 2" and
> "0,1,2" and "0;1;2" as all the same,
they are not the same. 0-2 could also be the same as 0;1A;1B;2
Cheers Martin
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/grades#values overwhelmingly uses
the dash to show a range, and to a lesser degree the comma to list multiple
values. In fact this is what is suggested at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:grades. To use a semicolon in this
context or something like
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 15:21, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> ... when the forward/backward roles do not indicate the direction of
> travel, as is the case with bicycle routes.
>
If that statement is correct I have mistagged hundreds or more km of cycle
routes.
I use role=forward typically on oneway
sent from a phone
> On 19. Aug 2019, at 17:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>
> (I have elided most of the intermediate steps.)
and a lot of preparatory steps: you need to buy a computer, find a wall outlet
to plug it in, find the power button, find an internet provider and subscribe
to a
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 15:40, Peter Elderson wrote:
> Ideally, you should not have to create gpx-s from them and you should need
> no ordering or routing at all, because they ARE the routes. An app or
> gps-device should use them as is, just tell the user what to do next. Since
> no app
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 19:52, Andy Townsend wrote:
> The method for mapping the signposts is not quite the same as the CAI
> page. Signposts are mapped as either guidepost (see e.g.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5894712185 ) or route_marker (
>
Andy Townsend :
> On 19/08/2019 17:21, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> the only way for the likes of me is to use detection tools and
> maintenance tools to order data by hand at the mapping level, so ordinary
> people can use waymarkedtrails to get usable linear gpx-s for their
> basecamps, route
OK, I have fixed my fair share of route relations, both public transport
and bicycle and foot routes.
I find it easier to EDIT them, when they are sorted. To figure out there
are problems with them, when they are sorted. JOSM actually does a great
job with the sorting. For bicycle, foot and horse
On 19/08/2019 09:50, Volker Schmidt wrote:
Let me also introduce a further complication in the "sorting"
discussion for hiking and cycling route relations.
Some mappers like the idea to keep signposts in the same route
relation as the ways making up the route.
By way of example, here's one
sent from a phone
> On 19. Aug 2019, at 15:28, Joseph Eisenberg
> wrote:
>
> If we remove the animal=yes tags, there are about 247 uses of animal=*
> on landuse=farmyard, landuse=meadow, and landuse=farmland combined, so
> it's not huge.
animal=yes/no would already be a quite useful
sent from a phone
> On 19. Aug 2019, at 15:20, Joseph Eisenberg
> wrote:
>
> similar and in many places it can be hard to distinguish hay meadow
> from grazing pasture during most of the year.
the presence of a fence aiming at keeping the animals inside may be an
indication, although not
sent from a phone
> On 19. Aug 2019, at 13:13, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So the produce key is used for the output, if that is live animals then they
> can be tagged that way.
> If the output is milk then produce=milk not produce=cow.
+1, similarly for chicken, which are
sent from a phone
> On 19. Aug 2019, at 12:35, marc marc wrote:
>
> 16% of landuse=farmyard have a anima=* tag.
> I didn't understand what argument to hope that the
> current most used tag would change in favor of a marginal tag.
generally I would expect a farmyard to contain several
On 19/08/2019 17:21, Peter Elderson wrote:
the only way for the likes of me is to use detection tools and
maintenance tools to order data by hand at the mapping level, so
ordinary people can use waymarkedtrails to get usable linear gpx-s for
their basecamps, route editors, trip planners,
Richard Fairhurst :
> On mobile, on train, apologies for lack of formatting. :)
>
> Sarah - the problem is that when you say “one single simple
> instruction to the mapper: sort your route“, the instruction might be
> simple
> but carrying it out isn’t.
>
> Let’s say we have a cyclist, new to
On 8/18/19 10:05 PM, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> route=road relations provide a way to group all the individual
> segments of a numbered route into a coherent whole, and allow for
> better handling of things like the choice of highway shield and the
> handling of concurrencies (where two numbered routes
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 11:10 AM Paul Allen wrote:
> And say what you like about Warthogs being ugly, the Fairchild Republic A-10
> Thunderbolt II (aka Warthog) was a very effective war plane, both in kill
> power and
> survivability. Please don't make JOSM's UI seem better than it is by
>
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 11:02 AM Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Let’s say we have a cyclist, new to OSM, who wants to add a newly opened
> section to an existing route. As Peter says, doing this to said
> specification “usually requires lots of JOSM”. The steps involved to do this
> in sorted order
sent from a phone
> On 19. Aug 2019, at 12:17, Joseph Eisenberg
> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, the key animal=* has also been used for zoo animals
> (see elephant, etc) and some of the values are rare, proposed separate
> features like animal=wellness and animal=cemetery.
I would not see a
My use-case for cycle.travel is having a single polyline that I can make into
a route guide at https://cycle.travel/routes . Currently there’s two dozen:
I’d like there to be thousands. So:
> - diversions and alternatives
Give them consistent roles so I can ignore them.
> - routes with
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:02, Richard Fairhurst
wrote:
Let’s say we have a cyclist, new to OSM, who wants to add a newly opened
> section to an existing route. As Peter says, doing this to said
> specification “usually requires lots of JOSM”. The steps involved to do
> this
> in sorted order
On mobile, on train, apologies for lack of formatting. :)
Sarah - the problem is that when you say “one single simple
instruction to the mapper: sort your route“, the instruction might be simple
but carrying it out isn’t.
Let’s say we have a cyclist, new to OSM, who wants to add a newly opened
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 15:13, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> (Summary: What do the data *consumers* want to see in the tagging for
> route alternatives, circular routes, and routes that begin and end on
> dual carriageways?)
>
Since you've broadened the discussion to deal with more than just walking/
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 08:20 Kevin Kenny wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:34 AM Peter Elderson
> wrote:
> > Keeping linear main route and alteratives separate is actually quite
> straightforward and much less work than creating and maintaining routes
> with roles. Especially when the
(Summary: What do the data *consumers* want to see in the tagging for
route alternatives, circular routes, and routes that begin and end on
dual carriageways?)
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 3:47 AM Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
> We do happen to have a clear rule for unbroken linear routes: just assemble
> in
I'll still be using a range with a -. so 0-2 to mean from 0 to 2 inclusive.
I've used it all over my state for schools together with the grades key. To
me it's a lot clearer and simpler than the semicolon or multiple yes/no
values.
On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 16:53, Lanxana . wrote:
> Hi!
>
> so,
You can't seem to let go of your routing. The routes in OSM represent
routes that are already there. They are sequences of ways to follow in the
order given, not sequences of points to route to.
Ideally, you should not have to create gpx-s from them and you should need
no ordering or routing at
Le 19.08.19 à 15:28, Joseph Eisenberg a écrit :
>>> The tag livestock=*
>>> used 132 times
>>
>> 16% of landuse=farmyard have a animal=* tag.
>
> I think you misread taginfo.
you're right.
> If we remove the animal=yes tags
in stead of a replay, can you explain
why those valid datas need to be
>> The tag livestock=*
>> used 132 times
>
> 16% of landuse=farmyard have a animal=* tag.
I think you misread taginfo. There are over 800,000 landuse=farmyard
features, and only 1764 have an animal=* tag, so that is 0.22% - the
16% on the right means that 16% of uses of animal are found on
1) Landuse=meadow has been used for pastures for a very long time, and
the wiki page and definition make it clear that this is fine.
Previously landuse=pasture was proposed, but rejected since it's quite
similar and in many places it can be hard to distinguish hay meadow
from grazing pasture
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:34 AM Peter Elderson wrote:
> Keeping linear main route and alteratives separate is actually quite
> straightforward and much less work than creating and maintaining routes with
> roles. Especially when the forward/backward roles do not indicate the
> direction of
Le 19.08.19 à 13:34, Paul Allen a écrit :
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 12:16, Warin wrote:
>I like property tags that can be used anywhere appropriate.
>
> The authors of at least one editor disagree with you there.
> Unless all of the possible
> values are applicable to all objects for which
> the second way is preferred in this particular case as it's not a stand-alone
> page.
Agreed. I just did this to make a page for Key:roof:shape, by making a
template called Template:Roof:shape with the content that should be
the same on that page and on the Simple 3D buildings page and then I
Maybe it's the summer heat, or my age, but I still don't get the essential
step in both Sarah's and Peter's reasoning.
Let's assume that for hiking and cycling type relations I do have all
component ways in some, generally agreed, -sequence in the database.
How do I get this information out of the
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 12:17, s8evq wrote:
>
> Perhaps going off topic, but does somebody know how to do this exactly?
> I'm trying to add "{{Tile of the wiki page}}", but it doesn't work.
>
I've not done it, but see this in the transclusion page:
- *{{Stochastic processes}}* will
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 12:16, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
That is a negative for me, I like property tags that can be used anywhere
> appropriate.
>
The authors of at least one editor disagree with you there. Unless all of
the possible
values are applicable to all objects for which
On 19/08/19 21:14, ael wrote:
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 05:21:22PM +0900, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
Interesting!
I remembered a problem with "trade=*" - it's already been used almost
5000 times to specify the type of trade goods sold at a shop=trade -
see
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 08:25:30PM +1000, Warin wrote:
> On 19/08/19 19:12, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > 19 Aug 2019, 10:44 by 61sundow...@gmail.com:
> >
> > On 19/08/19 18:21, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> >
> > Interesting!
> >
> > I remembered a problem with
On 19/08/19 18:50, Volker Schmidt wrote:
Let me also introduce a further complication in the "sorting"
discussion for hiking and cycling route relations.
Some mappers like the idea to keep signposts in the same route
relation as the ways making up the route. This strategy has been
adopted in
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 11:12:58AM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>
>
>
> 19 Aug 2019, 10:44 by 61sundow...@gmail.com:
>
> > On 19/08/19 18:21, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting!
> >>
> >> I remembered a problem with "trade=*" - it's already been used almost
> >> 5000 times to
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 11:21, Joseph Eisenberg
wrote:
> Landuse=meadow can be tagged with meadow=pasture or
> =paddock, but again this does not specify the type of animal in the
> pasture.
>
There are two problems with that statement.
1) In normal usage, a pasture is not a category of meadow.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 06:44:31PM +1000, Warin wrote:
> On 19/08/19 18:21, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> > Interesting!
> >
> > I remembered a problem with "trade=*" - it's already been used almost
> > 5000 times to specify the type of trade goods sold at a shop=trade -
> > see
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 11:31:05 +0100, Paul Allen wrote:
> One way of handling this is a link. Another way of doing it offered by the
> wiki is transclusion.
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Transclusion and
>
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:50:05AM +0200, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 09:47, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
>
> Assuming we don't care what happens to really botched relations, all cases
> > except one that I listed initially are covered with one single simple
> > instruction to the
On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 05:21:22PM +0900, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> Interesting!
>
> I remembered a problem with "trade=*" - it's already been used almost
> 5000 times to specify the type of trade goods sold at a shop=trade -
> see https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/trade and
>
On 19/08/19 20:17, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
What is the best tag to specify the livestock animals in a farmyard or meadow?
I checked, and currently a number of farmyards are tagged with
farmyard=*, but most values describe the feature, like
farmyard=feedlot. Landuse=meadow can be tagged with
Le 19.08.19 à 12:17, Joseph Eisenberg a écrit :
> The tag animal=* has been 2137 times
> animal=yes (unhelpful!)
I wonder why it's useless.
if the contributor does not know if they are cows or calves,
this allows him to enter "there are farm animals there" and any
application can easily target
On 19/08/19 19:12, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 10:44 by 61sundow...@gmail.com:
On 19/08/19 18:21, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
Interesting!
I remembered a problem with "trade=*" - it's already been used
almost
5000 times to specify the type of trade
What is the best tag to specify the livestock animals in a farmyard or meadow?
I checked, and currently a number of farmyards are tagged with
farmyard=*, but most values describe the feature, like
farmyard=feedlot. Landuse=meadow can be tagged with meadow=pasture or
=paddock, but again this does
19 Aug 2019, 10:44 by 61sundow...@gmail.com:
> On 19/08/19 18:21, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>
>> Interesting!
>>
>> I remembered a problem with "trade=*" - it's already been used almost
>> 5000 times to specify the type of trade goods sold at a shop=trade -
>> see
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 09:47, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
Assuming we don't care what happens to really botched relations, all cases
> except one that I listed initially are covered with one single simple
> instruction to the mapper: sort your route.
>
I strongly disagree with this advice, at least
On 19/08/19 18:21, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
Interesting!
I remembered a problem with "trade=*" - it's already been used almost
5000 times to specify the type of trade goods sold at a shop=trade -
see https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/trade and
Interesting!
I remembered a problem with "trade=*" - it's already been used almost
5000 times to specify the type of trade goods sold at a shop=trade -
see https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/trade and
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dtrade
On 8/19/19, Martin Koppenhoefer
On Sun, 18 Aug 2019 at 18:26, Richard Fairhurst
wrote:
> I'd fully agree on roles. The use of 'alternate' and 'forward'/'reverse'
> roles for bike route relations dates back to the earliest days of bike
> route
> mapping in OSM and is well established by now.
>
I suppose this is a typo:
It
sent from a phone
> On 19. Aug 2019, at 02:28, Joseph Eisenberg
> wrote:
>
> But trade= is better than generic business= for the workshop of an individual
> tradesperson.
by the time craft was introduced, it should probably have been “trade”, IIRR
the craft tag was invented by Germans
On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 09:25:01AM -0700, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> But just as long established in OSM is the principle that - since mappers
> are our most precious resource - we optimise for the mapper, not for ease of
> consumption. Allowing relations to be unsorted is an example of that. If a
66 matches
Mail list logo
