Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[Warin]

On 18/09/19 09:02, Paul Allen wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 23:46, brad > wrote:


I think it's valid tag for a campsite,


I think it can be, on larger camp sites, which have several washing 
machines in a

dedicated building.

 It's not much different than any other self service coin operated
laundry.


Yes and no.  Many camp sites charge, and do so with a coin-op 
mechanism.  The problem
is tagging the access.  Those machines are generally available for use 
only by people
staying on the site (they could accept anyone, but usually do not).  
How are you going
to tag that?  We don't have access=campers and access=customers 
doesn't really
make sense because anybody using a coin-op machine is a customer.  
It's possible

we need access=residents,


The campers are customers of the camp-site .. tag the camp-site as 
access customers and then only campers can get to the laundry.


Residents? To me that means people living there, long term. Campers are 
usually tourists, short term.. so not residents.



which would have possible usages in other situations
such as camping site shops (some are open to non-residents) and things 
like
gyms or washing machines in apartment blocks.  But trying to use 
access=* for
anything not related to transport gets a lot of (probably justified) 
dissent.


It gets used for clubs, swimming pools, sporting facilities...
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[Warin]

On 18/09/19 09:08, marc marc wrote:

Le 18.09.19 à 01:02, Paul Allen a écrit :

Those machines are generally available for use only by people
staying on the site (they could accept anyone, but usually do not).  How
are you going
to tag that?  We don't have access=campers

access=private private=campers



The campers are customers.

access=customers.


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[Paul Allen]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 00:09, marc marc  wrote:

> Le 18.09.19 à 01:02, Paul Allen a écrit :
> > Those machines are generally available for use only by people
> > staying on the site (they could accept anyone, but usually do not).  How
> > are you going
> > to tag that?  We don't have access=campers
>
> access=private private=campers
>

Is private=* documented anywhere?  I had a quick look and couldn't find it,
but it's late
and I should be in bed.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Tourist bus stop

[Paul Allen]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 23:56, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> I am honestly confused by the discussions about types and features of
> buses.
>

Join the club. :)

Are these relevant in the mapping context?
>

Yes.  That's how this whole thread started.  Somebody wanting to map places
where
coaches stop to let people on and off.  Which are sometimes for coaches
alone but
some may be shared with buses.


> Are there any road regulations referring specifically to coaches?
>

I have no idea.  It would be a long search to find out, and if you found
nothing you
still couldn't be sure you hadn't missed something.

Because there are for buses. Not just buses in public service, but buses
> intended as a kind of vehicle (in all places I know, this includes coaches
> and small buses with more than 9 seats).
>

Even though there may be no generic legislation there may be specific
signage.  Access
for buses only would (I surmise) exclude coaches because the buses are
permitted in order
to allow passengers to board/alight along that bit of highway whereas
coaches would be
using it merely as a short-cut from A to B.  Pedestrianized inner cities
areas may allow
buses along some roads that all other traffic is excluded from (except for
delivery vehicles
outside shopping hours).  I have seen video of a rising bollard that dropped
to allow a bus through and then rose to block the car following the bus:
presumably a coach
would also be blocked because it wouldn't broadcast a valid ID.  See
https://youtu.be/4wT7zM8XgXQ?t=189

We do need to keep coaches and buses separate.  And realize that coaches
(whether chartered,
for holidays or for day trips) are not the same thing as tourist/tour buses
(which are probably in yet
another category for stops and road access).

Oh, and please forget that motorbus ever existed.  Motorcycle is in common
use (more
usually motorbike) to distinguish it from an ordinary bicycle.  Motorcar is
quaint and
old-fashioned and people would wonder why you said motorcar rather than
just car
but would know what you meant.   Motorbus is so antiquated that people
would wonder
what you were talking about and ask if you meant a bus.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[marc marc]

Le 18.09.19 à 01:02, Paul Allen a écrit :
> Those machines are generally available for use only by people
> staying on the site (they could accept anyone, but usually do not).  How 
> are you going
> to tag that?  We don't have access=campers

access=private private=campers
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[Paul Allen]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 23:46, brad  wrote:

> I think it's valid tag for a campsite,


I think it can be, on larger camp sites, which have several washing
machines in a
dedicated building.

 It's not much different than any other self service coin operated laundry.
>

Yes and no.  Many camp sites charge, and do so with a coin-op mechanism.
The problem
is tagging the access.  Those machines are generally available for use only
by people
staying on the site (they could accept anyone, but usually do not).  How
are you going
to tag that?  We don't have access=campers and access=customers doesn't
really
make sense because anybody using a coin-op machine is a customer.  It's
possible
we need access=residents, which would have possible usages in other
situations
such as camping site shops (some are open to non-residents) and things like
gyms or washing machines in apartment blocks.  But trying to use access=*
for
anything not related to transport gets a lot of (probably justified)
dissent.


-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Tourist bus stop

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

I am honestly confused by the discussions about types and features of buses. 
Are these relevant in the mapping context? Are there any road regulations 
referring specifically to coaches?
Because there are for buses. Not just buses in public service, but buses 
intended as a kind of vehicle (in all places I know, this includes coaches and 
small buses with more than 9 seats).

@Paul From a quick search it seems these specific rules exist in the uk as 
well, see here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/traffic-signs
signs giving orders-> No buses (over 8 passenger seats)

Cheers Martin 


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[brad]

I think it's valid tag for a campsite,   It's not much different than 
any other self service coin operated laundry.


On 9/17/19 4:27 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


On 17. Sep 2019, at 08:29, Joseph Eisenberg  wrote:

I didn't think shop=laundry would work for a laundry room at a campsite.


I agree this seems strange, shop=laundry is about a laundry business, while a 
camping is about a camping business and the “laundry service” is secondary (and 
a service of the camp site, not a business on its own).

Ciao Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 17. Sep 2019, at 08:29, Joseph Eisenberg  
> wrote:
> 
> I didn't think shop=laundry would work for a laundry room at a campsite.


I agree this seems strange, shop=laundry is about a laundry business, while a 
camping is about a camping business and the “laundry service” is secondary (and 
a service of the camp site, not a business on its own).

Ciao Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] oneway street with two combined foot-cycle lanes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

17 Sep 2019, 02:33 by thesw...@gmail.com:

> On 17/9/19 05:29, Volker Schmidt wrote:
>
>> How to tag a
>> oneway street with a combined foot-cycle lanes on either side with oneway
>> restrictions for bicycles.
>> To understand my description you need to look at the photo:
>>
>> http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ndVXZQlQxoTi_678lWXc9A/photo
>>
>
> The easiest way is:
> cycleway=lane
> oneway:bicycle=no
>
> See:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
>
> The various different options for tagging the same thing were discussed in 
> March:
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-March/043894.html 
> 
>
See also
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle#Cycle_lanes_in_oneway_motor_car_roads
 



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[Warin]

On 17/09/19 16:29, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

I didn't think shop=laundry would work for a laundry room at a campsite.

But I suppose washing_machine=yes/no + dryer=yes/no is good enough for
99% of cases.a


Also features at hotels/guest-houses etc... no reason to limit them to camp 
sites.

Example bbqs appear at picnic sties etc.




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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[Joseph Eisenberg]

I didn't think shop=laundry would work for a laundry room at a campsite.

But I suppose washing_machine=yes/no + dryer=yes/no is good enough for
99% of cases.

On 9/17/19, Simon Poole  wrote:
> Do you actually believe that it is a good idea to have people map
> individual washing machines  and dryers (the tag exists for
> washing_machine but is super low use)?
>
> I can see the need to map laundries (and that might have slightly wider
> application than just camp sites), so why not shop=laundry (yes that
> should have probably been amenity=laundry but that's a done deal)  and
> add attribute tags for the number of washing machines and dryers?
>
> Simon
>
> Am 09.09.2019 um 01:52 schrieb Joseph Eisenberg:
>> Several new and existing property and feature tags for campsites,
>> caravan sites, camp pitches, picnic sites and related tourism features
>> are now open for voting:
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties
>>
>> Main changes:
>>
>> - Deprecate booking=* (use reservation=* instead)
>> - Deprecate bbq=* (use barbecue_grill=* instead).
>>
>> There is also a list of new properties and features. These do not yet
>> have wiki pages:
>>
>> - amenity=power_supply
>> - amenity=bear_box
>> - bear_box=yes/no
>> - amenity=greywater_drain
>> - greywater_drain=yes/no
>> - kitchen=yes/no
>> - waste_disposal=yes/no
>> - scout=yes/no
>>
>> See the whole list at
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties#Tagging:_List_of_Proposed_Tags_To_Approve
>>
>> I apologize for including this many tags in the proposal.
>>
>> However, it appears that they are non-controversial since there were
>> no specific negative comments during the RFC, and they are already
>> used at least a few times in the database, so I'm proceeding with
>> voting for them all together to save everyone time.
>>
>> But since I think it's not best practice to include so many tags in
>> one proposal, I've got a special deal for anyone who objects to one of
>> these tags:
>>
>> Just include a comment with your vote stating which tag you oppose and
>> why, and we will consider it "vetoed", and I will bring it up as a
>> separate proposal later which can be discussed in more detail.
>>
>> This could be a comment with a "approve" vote, a "disapprove" vote, or
>> an "abstain", depending on how you feel about the rest of the proposed
>> tags.
>>
>> If you missed the previous discussions about these tags, see
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties#External_discussions
>>
>> Here's the link for voting:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties#Voting
>>
>> -Joseph Eisenberg
>>
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>

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Campsite properties

[Simon Poole]

Do you actually believe that it is a good idea to have people map
individual washing machines  and dryers (the tag exists for
washing_machine but is super low use)?

I can see the need to map laundries (and that might have slightly wider
application than just camp sites), so why not shop=laundry (yes that
should have probably been amenity=laundry but that's a done deal)  and
add attribute tags for the number of washing machines and dryers?

Simon

Am 09.09.2019 um 01:52 schrieb Joseph Eisenberg:
> Several new and existing property and feature tags for campsites,
> caravan sites, camp pitches, picnic sites and related tourism features
> are now open for voting:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties
>
> Main changes:
>
> - Deprecate booking=* (use reservation=* instead)
> - Deprecate bbq=* (use barbecue_grill=* instead).
>
> There is also a list of new properties and features. These do not yet
> have wiki pages:
>
> - amenity=power_supply
> - amenity=bear_box
> - bear_box=yes/no
> - amenity=greywater_drain
> - greywater_drain=yes/no
> - kitchen=yes/no
> - waste_disposal=yes/no
> - scout=yes/no
>
> See the whole list at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties#Tagging:_List_of_Proposed_Tags_To_Approve
>
> I apologize for including this many tags in the proposal.
>
> However, it appears that they are non-controversial since there were
> no specific negative comments during the RFC, and they are already
> used at least a few times in the database, so I'm proceeding with
> voting for them all together to save everyone time.
>
> But since I think it's not best practice to include so many tags in
> one proposal, I've got a special deal for anyone who objects to one of
> these tags:
>
> Just include a comment with your vote stating which tag you oppose and
> why, and we will consider it "vetoed", and I will bring it up as a
> separate proposal later which can be discussed in more detail.
>
> This could be a comment with a "approve" vote, a "disapprove" vote, or
> an "abstain", depending on how you feel about the rest of the proposed
> tags.
>
> If you missed the previous discussions about these tags, see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties#External_discussions
>
> Here's the link for voting:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Campsite_properties#Voting
>
> -Joseph Eisenberg
>
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