Re: [Tagging] railway crossings with cycleways
On 05/10/19 09:58, Paul Johnson wrote: On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 7:58 AM Martin Koppenhoefer mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote: sent from a phone The wiki defines railway=level_crossing as a crossing of rails and a road, while railway=crossing is for a pedestrian crossing of railway tracks. What about cycleways? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Arailway%3Dlevel_crossing https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dcrossing I'm strongly inclined to consider a cycleway a road, not a footway. I think the majority of legal entities consider a bicycle a legal vehicle so it may make sense to use the same crossing type as for other vehicles. Having said that .. I don't think there would be many bicycle specific crossings? Most would be at the same place as other vehicles cross so that they would use the same infrastructure. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] railway crossings with cycleways
On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 7:58 AM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > The wiki defines railway=level_crossing as a crossing of rails and a road, > while railway=crossing is for a pedestrian crossing of railway tracks. What > about cycleways? > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Arailway%3Dlevel_crossing > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dcrossing > I'm strongly inclined to consider a cycleway a road, not a footway. My thinking on this is that the Federal Highway Administration has considered bicycle facilities as a roadway since at least 2000 (the earliest copy of the MUTCD I could find online), and some states like Oregon and California since at least the 1970s. Since the 1990s, I've also noticed cycleways moving from more footway style crossings in the 1990s to, in more recent years, crossings more or fully consistent with what you would expect on roads that are open to motor vehicles. I'd call this a level crossing (sorry for potato quality, I had to take it from a panorama I took). https://i.imgur.com/a5roXn1.png Photo is looking southbound toward https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/932401569 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging meadow orchards
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 20:43, Tom Pfeifer wrote: > > On 04.10.2019 19:10, Markus wrote: > > While orchard=meadow_orchard is the most used way of tagging a meadow > > orchard (2 748 uses), there > > are also 668 uses of the other subtag meadow=meadow_orchard. That means > > that people don't agree that > > the orchard is more important than the meadow. > > Apparently there is a semantic difference. When someone counts 3 apple trees > on a hectare, it is > more a meadow. If there are 35 varieties of old sorts in the backyard, it is > more an orchard, and > the farmer needs the small mower to cut the grass. > > Thus the subtagging allows to preserve the subtle differences, while a new > catch-all high-level tag > doesn't. Subtle, from Latin subtilis ‘fine, delicate.’ ;-) I agree that there such differentiation in tagging would make sense in these extreme cases and i hope that mappers had this in mind and didn't just randomly choose a subtag. However, at many places it's impossible to say which land use is more dominant (example: [1]). How to tag these? I were very surprised if these places make only 1.4% (= share of landuse=meadow_orchard in all three tags) of all meadow orchards. [1]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gebenstorf_Blühende_Kirschbäume_1874.JPG ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging meadow orchards
On 04.10.2019 19:10, Markus wrote: While orchard=meadow_orchard is the most used way of tagging a meadow orchard (2 748 uses), there are also 668 uses of the other subtag meadow=meadow_orchard. That means that people don't agree that the orchard is more important than the meadow. Apparently there is a semantic difference. When someone counts 3 apple trees on a hectare, it is more a meadow. If there are 35 varieties of old sorts in the backyard, it is more an orchard, and the farmer needs the small mower to cut the grass. Thus the subtagging allows to preserve the subtle differences, while a new catch-all high-level tag doesn't. Subtle, from Latin subtilis ‘fine, delicate.’ ;-) Compared to landuse=meadow_orchard (48 uses), the two subtags certainly only have such a high usage because they render, while landuse=meadow_orchard doesn't. They render for a reason, because they represent major types of landuse. tom ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging meadow orchards
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019, 16:18 Tom Pfeifer, wrote: > I reviewed the thread and found the most convincing argument that the > subtagging solution is already > the preferred tagging in 2787 cases (according to overpass, most of them > in Germany). It helps to > prevent tag fragmentation and will not lead to crying how to render it. I > also think it is the best > option semantically. > > This contrasts 48 cases of landuse=meadow_orchard, only in DE and CH. While orchard=meadow_orchard is the most used way of tagging a meadow orchard (2 748 uses), there are also 668 uses of the other subtag meadow=meadow_orchard. That means that people don't agree that the orchard is more important than the meadow. Compared to landuse=meadow_orchard (48 uses), the two subtags certainly only have such a high usage because they render, while landuse=meadow_orchard doesn't. In my opinion, high usage doesn't guarantee that the tagging is sensible. Markus > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging meadow orchards
On 03.10.2019 21:12, Markus wrote: How shall we remain now? Can we agree on on a single way of tagging in order that this discussion doesn't come up again in a year or two? I still think that landuse=meadow_orchard (as well as landuse=silvopasture for forest and pasture) is the best option. The other used or proposed tags demand from mappers that they define which land use is more important than the other. However, such a choice is arbitrary. I reviewed the thread and found the most convincing argument that the subtagging solution is already the preferred tagging in 2787 cases (according to overpass, most of them in Germany). It helps to prevent tag fragmentation and will not lead to crying how to render it. I also think it is the best option semantically. This contrasts 48 cases of landuse=meadow_orchard, only in DE and CH. tom ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] railway crossings with cycleways
sent from a phone The wiki defines railway=level_crossing as a crossing of rails and a road, while railway=crossing is for a pedestrian crossing of railway tracks. What about cycleways? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Arailway%3Dlevel_crossing https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dcrossing Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
