Re: [Tagging] Trunk VS primary
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 19:39:19 +0100 From: yo paseopor To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" Subject: Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Trunk VS primary, First problem for classifications is the reason of the classification. What is this reason: administrative laws (with their political facts to keep in mind) or physical conditions (the best for the performance of the vehicles you would have in this road)? Second problem is the reality of the country: If you are in the country with the biggest budget in motorways you will be sure some secondary will have two lane roads and bridges without crossings. If you are in a country major part of your population will not have assured every day's meal main road would be an asphalted road or sand track. But the number of grade classifications are the same wherever you go: four to six grades (1-trunk,2-primary,3-secondary,4-tertiary,5-unclassified,6-track) . My option would be a physical classification based on the state of the country. Only motorway would be apart of this classification because a motorway is the same here than in other countries. Here in Europe you can find the administrative grades at the reference of the road (N- ,Regional- , Province- in Spain; N-, D- in France; B , L in Austria; ...). In a country like Spain trunk would be a road with 100 km/h medium speed and no crossings at the same level with restriction for cycles . In a country like Zambia or Congo trunk would be the best conditions road you can find in that country , so only local community people (or people who live in that country) would know what are the best conditions you can find in their country. In a country like Spain unclassified would be the municipality asphalted tracks, with no more than 3 meters width (for one car). In a country like Zambia or Congo unclassified would be the worst condition road you can find in that country (but not track), so only local community people (or people who live in that country) would know what are the worst conditions you can find in their country. I know Spain because I am Spaniard and I travel through Europe , so I think in the European Union things would be similar. Local communitters can explain in this list what are the best and the worst conditions for the roads in their countries and their opinion about the other grades. I don't have any knowledge about Zambia or Congo so I think other people would have more knowledge than I can have about their countries. What are your opinions? What do you think? Salut i mapes (Health and Maps) yopaseopor There is at least one more type of road classification to consider: functional classification. This idea of there being several ways of classifying roads was discussed over ten years ago in the discussion areas of different wiki topics dealing with this issue. Has anyone involved in this discussion ever looked at them? The topic has already been debated ad infinitum. There was no consensus then and there won't be one now. There can never be a consensus unless we agree on the basis for classifying roads, because these different methods are orthogonal. Since OSM has no top authority, and everyone has a different opinion on what basis they would like to see roads classified on, this debate has no solution. This is one of several topics that keeps popping up on the list from time to time. After many words are exchanged, people get frustrated and the topic eventually dies down and goes away, only to be resurrected at a later date by someone who is not familiar with the history of what has gone on before. Then the cycle starts all over again. Sorry to be so negative, but this is what I've observed in the years I've been involved with OSM. Mark ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Trunk VS primary,
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 17:09, yo paseopor wrote: You lost my point of view:(WHICH) the best (or worst) conditions for a > road you can find in a country. In some countries will be seem like a > motorway, in other countries or zones will be a sand track. And the other > focus: WHO can know these conditions (local communitters, people who lived > in the country, etc.) .This is an issue OSM will have to front some day. > And some day we will have an agreement about it. > We're actually conflating several issues: 1) Road construction (paved/unpaved). 2) Number of lanes. 3) Central barrier yes/no. 4) Entry/exit types (simple junctions/roundabouts versus motorway on/off ramps). 5) Legislation (kinds of traffic, stopping, etc). 6) Routeing preference: a) Speed b) Distance In some countries, like the UK, these factors are all generally well-correlated. To a degree. Good routes between important destinations tend to get good roads. Other places, good routes between important destinations get bad roads, but they're still the best roads around. I think we need to start splitting up these attributes into different tags and leave it to editors to offer the appropriate combinations for a given country. Then carto can handle different coutries differently. Preferable two renderings, one aimed at construction (motorway down to dirt track) and the other aimed at "good route, shame about the surface." I now have a quote from Calvin and Hobbes going through my head: "And while I'm dreaming, I'd like a little pony." It's probably insoluble but if it is soluble it will take us decades to agree on a solution. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Trunk VS primary,
Hi! You lost my point of view:(WHICH) the best (or worst) conditions for a road you can find in a country. In some countries will be seem like a motorway, in other countries or zones will be a sand track. And the other focus: WHO can know these conditions (local communitters, people who lived in the country, etc.) .This is an issue OSM will have to front some day. And some day we will have an agreement about it. Health and maps (Salut i mapes) yopaseopor On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Erkin Alp Güney wrote: > No, that is highway=road. highway=unclassified is one grade above that. > > 26.12.2019 21:39 tarihinde yo paseopor yazdı: > > > > > In a country like Zambia or Congo unclassified would be the worst > > condition road you can find in that country (but not track), so only > > local community people (or people who live in that country) would know > > what are the worst conditions you can find in their country. > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Trunk VS primary,
highway=road is solely for unsurveyed roads of unknown class (useful for mapping from low quality aerial images). See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Droad 26 Dec 2019, 19:50 by erkinalp9...@gmail.com: > No, that is highway=road. highway=unclassified is one grade above that. > > 26.12.2019 21:39 tarihinde yo paseopor yazdı: > >> >> In a country like Zambia or Congo unclassified would be the worst >> condition road you can find in that country (but not track), so only >> local community people (or people who live in that country) would know >> what are the worst conditions you can find in their country. >> > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Trunk VS primary,
sent from a phone > On 27. Dec 2019, at 11:18, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > highway=road tends to be most typically used to indicate that there is a > traversable path of unknown quality > +1 +1, of unknown quality, classification and access, it is a kind of fixme that should be modified to a specific high value if you know the situation. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Trunk VS primary,
26 Dec 2019, 20:02 by ba...@ursamundi.org: > On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 12:50 PM Erkin Alp Güney <> erkinalp9...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> No, that is highway=road. highway=unclassified is one grade above that. >> > > highway=road tends to be most typically used to indicate that there is a > traversable path of unknown quality > +1 > > , or a temporary road in a construction zone. > I think that this is rather highway=service (Maybe with service=driveway) > > These tend to be aggressively reclassified or removed as surveys happen or > temporary roads get removed after they're no longer needed. > +1___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Discourage use of landuse=churchyard?
sent from a phone > On 23. Dec 2019, at 06:29, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > I would recommend discouraging use of this tag, because the wiki > definition contradicts the plain-English meaning of churchyard, which > is usually a graveyard (cemetry) or burial ground next to a church. +1 IMHO we do not need another specific landuse here, there’s landuse=religious and amenity=graveyard (the latter seems to mean the same than what landuse =churchyard would imply if it meant what it sounded like) Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
