Re: [Tagging] Central European insight needed: cukrászda, cukrárna, cukiernia, ciastkarnia, cukráre?, pasticceria, konditorei, patisserie, ...
On Thu, 2020-07-02 at 18:17 +, 德泉 談 via Tagging wrote: > 在 2020年7月2日 星期四 上午7:18 [GMT+8]， Paul Allen< pla16...@gmail.com> 寫道： > > On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 23:59, Martin Koppenhoefer < > > dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 2. Jul 2020, at 00:44, Paul Allen wrote: > > > > > > > I cannot deny the possibility, but I have never seen a takeaway > > > > kebab shop with seats for queuing customers. > > > > > > typical configuration in such places around here is a board > > > (“table”) > > > attached to the wall and bar stools. You can use it while waiting > > > but > > > also to eat if you want. > > > > example pic with limited outdoor and indoor seating, typical > > situation: > > > > I've never seen anything like that with a takeaway. Cafes, yes. > > Seats > > outside used when it's sunny, seats inside used when it's raining. > > Not > > any takeway that I recall. > > It's interesting to find the difference of the food shops between > different nations, I'm surprised that seats for the takeaway queue is > not common in your place. Let me introduce the Taiwanese fried > chicken shop. > I would have said that somewhere to sit in take-aways for waiting customers is the norm, it may be a simple bench or in my local fish and chip shop there is a window sill that people sit on. Places where you have to stand are in the minority. Chinese takeaways usually have seats to wait at and they don't mind if you eat there providing you clear up. Often a kebab shop will have a table you can sit and eat at and you are expected to clear up when you leave. The key thing is that takeaways will not have customer toilets which are required by law in cafes, pubs and resturaunts. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
Nearby my high school there is a wall administrated by government. They invite artists to graffiti the wall every month. If I'm mapping I would mark it as an attraction, but only name it as graffiti wall but won't put the work name on the map. - Tan 在 2020年7月2日 星期四 下午1:33:44 [GMT+8]， Clifford Snow 寫道： > When I lived in a suburb of Minneapolis, we had this bridge that everyone > graffitied. Some of it was typical trash, but others were works of art, > including Prince on a motorcycle. About the same time out came Prince's > album, Graffiti Bridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_Bridge_(album) > The art stayed up longer than normal but after a time it was graffitied over. > Last time I was in town, I drove past the bridge but it was long gone. Or > because the area changed so much I couldn't find it :) > > I suspect that graffiti is too transitory to map. But if I had been > contributing to OSM I would have added it - and if Steve would have started > OSM before 1990. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Central European insight needed: cukrászda, cukrárna, cukiernia, ciastkarnia, cukráreň, pasticceria, konditorei, patisserie, ...
在 2020年7月2日 星期四 上午7:18 [GMT+8]， Paul Allen< pla16...@gmail.com> 寫道： > On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 23:59, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: >> On 2. Jul 2020, at 00:44, Paul Allen wrote: >> >>> I cannot deny the possibility, but I have never seen a takeaway >>> kebab shop with seats for queuing customers. >> >> typical configuration in such places around here is a board (“table”) >> attached to the wall and bar stools. You can use it while waiting but >> also to eat if you want. > > example pic with limited outdoor and indoor seating, typical situation: > > I've never seen anything like that with a takeaway. Cafes, yes. Seats > outside used when it's sunny, seats inside used when it's raining. Not > any takeway that I recall. It's interesting to find the difference of the food shops between different nations, I'm surprised that seats for the takeaway queue is not common in your place. Let me introduce the Taiwanese fried chicken shop. Localize fried chicken shop in my hometown is very common. (Note that although everyone call it fried chicken shop but they sell fired vegetables and seafood too.) This kind of shops usually only for takeout, and don't have seats. They sell fast food, but they actually not fast. https://www.facebook.com/104450897586160/photos/a.158539162177333/229840271713888/?type=3&theater Upper page is the most famous fried chicken shop in my hometown. They will give you a number paper and you have to wait at least 50 minutes at the peak hour to get your food, so they provide some seats for those who are waiting for their chicken. https://imgur.com/BtUnsdM This is a new shop nearby my home and I still need to wait 6 minutes for frying the chicken so they also provide seats. I've taken a look and wanted to know how local mapper in my hometown tagged this kind of shop, and made me funny that one is shop=kiosk, and other are shop=deli (may be the translation problem of iD editor). Only very few of them are amenity=fast_food. I think that local mapper may think that amenity=fast_food is for McDonald KFC or MOS burger some place you can sit in it. I think that I would call McDonald or MOS burger "fast food restaurant" and the "fast food shop" is for upper examples. -Tan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
sent from a phone > On 2. Jul 2020, at 16:12, Jarek Piórkowski wrote: > > If this was a monument, what would we consider a much taller sculpture yes, I’ve also some examples https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Treptower_Ehrenmal,_Tag_des_Sieges_2015,_01.jpg#mw-jump-to-license https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Holocaust_Memorial_Berlin.JPG#mw-jump-to-license https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barbarossa_Turm.jpg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Laboe-1936-HWI01.jpg#mw-jump-to-license https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/ArcoCostantinoRoma.jpg/400px-ArcoCostantinoRoma.jpg not sure if this qualifies as well: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kheops-Pyramid.jpg#mw-jump-to-license Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 09:26, Paul Allen wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 14:05, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: >> a monument is an object that you can go into, you cannot enter a graffiti so >> in any case this is not a monument for OpenStreetMap. > > From the wiki: "A memorial object, which is especially large (one can go > inside, > walk on or through it) or high enough..." Those are alternative criteria, not > components of a single criterion. Although it might (just) be high enough, > that wall was not constructed as part of the memorial. But if it had been > constructed as part of the memorial, it might (just) qualify as a monument. > > Now that I think about it, is > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:First_World_war_memorial_-_geograph.org.uk_-_535659.jpg > a monument or a memorial? To give an idea of scale, that grey rectangle > to its right, near a tree, is a phone box. It's tagged as a memorial, > but maybe it's high enough to be a monument. If we are making a distinction, to me, that's definitely a memorial. It's not monumental in scale. Even the plain two-story buildings around it are taller. If this was a monument, what would we consider a much taller sculpture like https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gdynia_Pomnik_Ofiar_Grudnia_1970_w_Gdyni_przy_al._Pi%C5%82sudskiego1.jpg (https://osm.org/node/4353704772)? Of course we can tag the height instead, but if we _are_ making a distinction, then the former is much less monumental. In retrospect, the monument/memorial distinction was probably a bad idea - I see a lot of small memorials (like life-size statues) around Toronto tagged as monuments, because editors think of them as "monuments to history" or "historical monuments". Just an unclear distinction that apparently only serves rendering at different zoom levels. --Jarek ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 14:34, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > On 2. Jul 2020, at 15:27, Paul Allen wrote: > > > > But if it had been > > constructed as part of the memorial, it might (just) qualify as a > monument > > to me this is in no way especially large, it looks just like a piece of > wall. Proceed as you wish ;-) > Looks just like a piece of wall to me, too. High enough that I couldn't climb to the top of it. But the wall isn't the memorial, the graffiti on it is the memorial. The wall is just a wall that happened to be there. -- Paul > Cheers Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
sent from a phone > On 2. Jul 2020, at 15:27, Paul Allen wrote: > > But if it had been > constructed as part of the memorial, it might (just) qualify as a monument to me this is in no way especially large, it looks just like a piece of wall. Proceed as you wish ;-) Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 14:05, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > On 2. Jul 2020, at 14:27, Paul Allen wrote: > > > > After doing some digging, that wall is the remains of a gabled wall of a > > ruined cottage, so it wasn't constructed specifically to apply the > > graffito. Which means it's not a monument. So I'll retag it as > > a memorial. > > a monument is an object that you can go into, you cannot enter a graffiti > so in any case this is not a monument for OpenStreetMap. > >From the wiki: "A memorial object, which is especially large (one can go inside, walk on or through it) or high enough..." Those are alternative criteria, not components of a single criterion. Although it might (just) be high enough, that wall was not constructed as part of the memorial. But if it had been constructed as part of the memorial, it might (just) qualify as a monument. Now that I think about it, is https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:First_World_war_memorial_-_geograph.org.uk_-_535659.jpg a monument or a memorial? To give an idea of scale, that grey rectangle to its right, near a tree, is a phone box. It's tagged as a memorial, but maybe it's high enough to be a monument. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
sent from a phone > On 2. Jul 2020, at 14:27, Paul Allen wrote: > > After doing some digging, that wall is the remains of a gabled wall of a > ruined cottage, so it wasn't constructed specifically to apply the > graffito. Which means it's not a monument. So I'll retag it as > a memorial. a monument is an object that you can go into, you cannot enter a graffiti so in any case this is not a monument for OpenStreetMap. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020, 09:21 Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > Still, even that is > > "Ben Tilly reports on Ten Post Office Sq, Boston MA 02109 USA - which is > not, > reportedly, the same as 10 Post Office Sq, Boston MA 02109 USA." > yes and no. Ben is alas correct. Boston really did allow this insanity, much to the consternation of taxi and delivery drivers. (I wonder if Ben met with the same people there that I did ...) They are (were?) adjacent buildings and the lobby reception/security were very aware that lost people should be sent next door. I forget if i've ever heard *why* they didn't just do some pair of 8, 10, 12 ... probably neither developer would accept being not 10. *sigh* (Each could have an entirely different street address based on the street defining its side of of the "square". Obviously this being Boston the so-called "square" is a trapezoid and not square, or a triangle if you include the little appendage park on the side, but i don't think that qualifies for POSquare vanity addresses.) (I'm not sure if this will remain true once the new construction on P.O.Square is done.) So housename "Ten" and housenumber "10". > Usually here, a vanity building name is "Pretty Fancy Place" with no number, or "One Somewhere Place", not Ten, but this pair of buildings it's Ten/10 Something Square. As i understand that block an actual housenumber would be on the through street defining the side of the square, so those might both be housename "Ten Post Office Square" and "10 Post Office Square" and not use housenumber. They are both fanciful names assigned by the developer, not connected to the city street naming. And thus neither is the 10/Ten the housename alone. (If the new construction is replacing both 10 and Ten iirc, perhaps they'll name the block long replacement X Post Office Square? Better would be the real street number !!) > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 09:55, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > On 2. Jul 2020, at 02:23, Paul Allen wrote: > > Somebody, > not me, mapped it as a monument although I don't think monument > applies: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6211918213 > > > it definitely isn’t a monument in OpenStreetMap terms, > It's not a sure thing. It depends if the wall was already there or if it was built specially for the paint to be applied. > you should retag it. memorial might apply? > After doing some digging, that wall is the remains of a gabled wall of a ruined cottage, so it wasn't constructed specifically to apply the graffito. Which means it's not a monument. So I'll retag it as a memorial. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
sent from a phone > On 2. Jul 2020, at 10:55, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote: > > I tagged it like that because I had trouble finding it when I had to go > there to visit a patient. established solution for this is using the key “ref”. addr:housename is about addresses. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 20:55:07 +0200 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >sent from a phone > >> On 1. Jul 2020, at 04:35, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Highly likely these are errors. However it is not impossible that a >> number could be used as a house name. > > >can you give an example? > >By which definition a number written as number can be a „name“? Here is a map of a hospital https://publikationer.regionh.dk/pdf/full-12684/kort-over-rigshospitalet-blegdamsvej.pdf e.g. "86" is tagged by me with name="86" https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283107636/history#map=17/55.69781/12.56517 The postal address of the building is "Esther Møllers Vej 6" I tagged it like that because I had trouble finding it when I had to go there to visit a patient. > >If it is, I would suspect a tagging error, because if the name is >„fiftyfour“, you should not write it „54“ or „LIV“ > >Probably most cases can be solved remotely by looking at the >surroundings. > >I agree that we could ask the mappers in the remaining cases. > >Cheers Martin > > > >___ >Tagging mailing list >Tagging@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a graffiti?
sent from a phone > On 2. Jul 2020, at 02:23, Paul Allen wrote: > > Somebody, > not me, mapped it as a monument although I don't think monument > applies: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6211918213 it definitely isn’t a monument in OpenStreetMap terms, you should retag it. memorial might apply? Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Open-air stage
sent from a phone > On 2. Jul 2020, at 05:27, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > So neither of those fit the situation where customers sit on the ground, with > no cover, in front of a covered stage? exactly. Also there might be some inconsistency wrt to the meaning of amenity=theatre. Is this about the physical place or the institution? It might matter when there are several theatres (troupes) sharing the same space, or when a theatre (building) is only used for different purposes or not used at all. Generally we would need (if there isn’t yet) a tag for the physical existence of a theatre like structure. This is quite frequent here and comes in all sizes, is typically freely accessible all year long unless there is an event which requires a fee to be paid for admittance (e.g. those found in parks, schools, etc., not those which are all year long fenced or walled and managed as permanent theatres and concert venues). Some days ago we had someone asking about an event space on the beach, which did not have specific physical adjustments (“just sand”), was usually a free (unmanaged) beach, but did have a name “Arena of the sea” and sometimes there were events going on like concerts, parties, etc. event_venue did not seem to match according to the definition and examples in the wiki, and we couldn’t find a better established tag either. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Open-air stage
sent from a phone > On 2. Jul 2020, at 09:47, Jez Nicholson wrote: > > Perhaps the definition of amphitheatre having to surround the stage is too > strict? Surely it is still an amphitheatre if the stage is at the front like > a Greek theatre? The requirement is fine, it clearly wouldn’t be an amphitheatre if it were a semicircle like the antique Greek theatres. The term amphi means “both” indicating that you can watch from opposing sides Ciao Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Open-air stage
Perhaps the definition of amphitheatre having to surround the stage is too strict? Surely it is still an amphitheatre if the stage is at the front like a Greek theatre? Doesn't seem to be much consensus on existing examples. Taormina Greek Theatre https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/42403497 Regents Park Open Air Theatre https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26747380 Minack Theatre, Cornwall https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/602821183 Brighton Open Air Theatre https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/104262840 Scarborough Open Air Theatre https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/123332467 On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:27 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Trying to tag this outdoor stage: > https://hota.com.au/hota-precinct/ > https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/-28.00213/153.41696 > (Best image is off Maxar Premium if it doesn't come through?) > > The photo is of the outdoor stage (the actual stage itself is behind the > closed doors), with a roof over it, but the audience sit outside, on the > grass, with no seating or roof. > > By their own description "There’s a unique outdoor stage in the parklands > for live events" > > Options appear to be theatre=open_air > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:theatre:type%3Dopen_air > which says "At an open-air stage, the stage has no roof and also the > spectators sit outdoors" > > or theatre=amphi > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:theatre:type%3Damphi > "An amphitheater has an *oval* or *circular* stage with seating that > *surrounds* the central function area like a modern open-air stadium" > > So neither of those fit the situation where customers sit on the ground, > with no cover, in front of a covered stage? > > Some discussion from several years ago that doesn't resolve anything: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity%3Dtheatre#open_air_theatre > > Carrying on from the building itself, would the grassed area out the front > where the customers sit, be mapped as a park, or some form of theatre or > seating tag (even though there are no actual seats)? > > Thoughts or suggestions? > > Thanks > > Graeme > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
