Re: [Tagging] Waterway equivalent of noexit=yes?

[Volker Schmidt]

Manhole=drain has more than 2000 uses, most of them seem to be water
drainage grids with no access for humans.
But if you want to retag them with something different you would need to do
this manually.
I would not touch it, even if it is an unfortunate tagging.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 21:33, Alan Mackie  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 11:28, Paul Allen  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 10:59, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>>
>>> manhole=drain is widely used in OSM for water drainage grids, that are
>>> not suitable for people to entr - se the photo on the wikipage
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> People have used manhole=drain for that purpose and the wikipage
>> for manhole=drain documents that use.  However, that photo appears
>> to be of a UK storm drain which is not a manhole by my definition
>> (too small for entry by a person) or by the wiki's definition for
>> Key:manhole which states "Hole with a cover that allows access to
>> an underground service location, just large enough for a human to climb
>> through."
>>
>> In my opinion we should deprecate manhole=drain except where
>> it really is large enough for access by a person.  We need a
>> better tag.  Well, two tags.  One for storm drains and one
>> for sinks that are too small to merit natural=sinkhole with
>> any of the current sinkhole=* types.  Oh, and a tag for
>> spreads, too.
>>
>> --
>> Paul
>>
>
> I think we also need one for "entrances" to pipes/tunnels of unknown
> extent where the entrance is by horizontal movement of the water rather
> than by falling into a hole. The presence/absence of gratings or mesh may
> be useful for these too.
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Waterway equivalent of noexit=yes?

[Alan Mackie]

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 11:28, Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 10:59, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>
>> manhole=drain is widely used in OSM for water drainage grids, that are
>> not suitable for people to entr - se the photo on the wikipage
>> 
>>
>
> People have used manhole=drain for that purpose and the wikipage
> for manhole=drain documents that use.  However, that photo appears
> to be of a UK storm drain which is not a manhole by my definition
> (too small for entry by a person) or by the wiki's definition for
> Key:manhole which states "Hole with a cover that allows access to
> an underground service location, just large enough for a human to climb
> through."
>
> In my opinion we should deprecate manhole=drain except where
> it really is large enough for access by a person.  We need a
> better tag.  Well, two tags.  One for storm drains and one
> for sinks that are too small to merit natural=sinkhole with
> any of the current sinkhole=* types.  Oh, and a tag for
> spreads, too.
>
> --
> Paul
>

I think we also need one for "entrances" to pipes/tunnels of unknown extent
where the entrance is by horizontal movement of the water rather than by
falling into a hole. The presence/absence of gratings or mesh may be useful
for these too.
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Re: [Tagging] Waterway equivalent of noexit=yes?

[Paul Allen]

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 10:59, Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> manhole=drain is widely used in OSM for water drainage grids, that are not
> suitable for people to entr - se the photo on the wikipage
> 
>

People have used manhole=drain for that purpose and the wikipage
for manhole=drain documents that use.  However, that photo appears
to be of a UK storm drain which is not a manhole by my definition
(too small for entry by a person) or by the wiki's definition for
Key:manhole which states "Hole with a cover that allows access to
an underground service location, just large enough for a human to climb
through."

In my opinion we should deprecate manhole=drain except where
it really is large enough for access by a person.  We need a
better tag.  Well, two tags.  One for storm drains and one
for sinks that are too small to merit natural=sinkhole with
any of the current sinkhole=* types.  Oh, and a tag for
spreads, too.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Waterway equivalent of noexit=yes?

[Volker Schmidt]

manhole=drain is widely used in OSM for water drainage grids, that are not
suitable for people to entr - se the photo on the wikipage



On Sun, 19 Jul 2020, 22:55 Martin Koppenhoefer, 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 18. Jul 2020, at 20:42, Alan Mackie  wrote:
> >
> > The closest I can find on the wiki is manhole=drain?
>
>
> but this is for manholes, not suitable for small grates where a person can
> not enter.
>
> Cheers Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Finger- or guide-post text

[Jan Michel]

Hi Kevin,

On 20.07.20 05:51, Kevin Kenny wrote:
[In the context of relation type=destination_sign]
Do I understand the intent correctly that the direction should be the 
way that the finger is pointing, and not the cardinal direction of the 
route? 

Yes, the tags on the relation describe the finger.
You can even use a number to give the precise direction in degrees.

I ask because in the US, we often describe a direction as "trail 
north" or whatever in that a hiker going 'northbound' on the route will 
be walking in that direction - which may be any direction at all on the 
compass.
Following my accustomed habit of jumping right in with the awkward 
cases, I might try to compose the relations for 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/in/album-72157631291668040/ Note 
that the top two signs are 'north' and the bottom two are 'south' in 
terms of trail directions.  

I don't think we have a scheme for trail directions yet.
But, displaying the trail name automatically is not an issue - the 'to' 
member yields a node or way, and the software can easily look up the 
relations this way belongs to.




Simply having "to" as a distant node could yield a horribly misleading.  
Oh, wait, 'to' is the next node along the way, not the ultimate 
destination. 
Correct. I prefer to use a way as 'to', and this way should start/end at 
the intersection. This makes it easier to use the data and less prone 
for ambiguities.


Is there a way to give a node ref for what the 
'destination' corresponds to?  On the sign in question, it might be nice 
to be able to indicate where Wawayanda Shelter is, since it's about 40 
km distant. 


Nothing established. There are 200 cases of the role 'destination', 
which I assume are used for exactly this purpose.



Jan


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