Re: [Tagging] Status of proposed roof:ridge / roof:edge ?

2020-08-31 Thread Tobias Knerr
On 31.08.20 20:06, Oliver Simmons wrote:
> Does anyone know if this tagging:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ProposedRoofLines
> 
> Is accepted and ok to use?
> 
> It has “proposed” in the title but there’s none of the usual proposal
> stuff saying if it was accepted or not.

It never went through the proposal process, and dates back to the era a
decade ago when the first 3D renderers in OSM showed up.

Over the years, the approach has seen some use in the database, but it's
far behind the roof:shape tagging from Simple 3D Buildings in
popularity. Application support is very limited, I don't know if any
software except OSM2World supports it. Still, it's the most popular
approach for modelling roofs with geometry (as opposed to picking from a
catalogue of typical shapes) if that's what you're looking for.

My recommendation is to only consider it if the roof shapes from Simple
3D Buildings aren't sufficient to describe a given roof. (Even then, you
could still add the closest roof:shape tag for compatibility reasons.)

Yours,
Tobias

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[Tagging] Status of proposed roof:ridge / roof:edge ?

2020-08-31 Thread Oliver Simmons
Does anyone know if this tagging: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ProposedRoofLinesIs accepted and ok to use? It has “proposed” in the title but there’s none of the usual proposal stuff saying if it was accepted or not. I was wanting to use it but thought I would ask first.Thanks :)- Oliver Simmons

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Re: [Tagging] leisure=schoolyard

2020-08-31 Thread joost schouppe
Ah, yes, in smaller schools or schools in dense areas that might be the
case. It came up here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38911304
It's rather large; has kindergarten up to high school education; not all
areas are available for students during breaks; areas are designated for
some students based on their grade.

Op ma 31 aug. 2020 om 11:51 schreef Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com>:

> It's been a while that I have been to school, but from memory, as well as
> from the current situation I see from my kids at their school, the school
> grounds are basically the same as the "Pausenhof". E.g. in my school,
> pupils had their respective spaces according to age groups or maybe
> classes, and basically all the available space was distributed.
>
> Maybe that's different from your experience (I could imagine teacher's
> parking being excluded, for example).
>
> Cheers
> Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Rail segment in a bike route

2020-08-31 Thread Peter Elderson
Volker Schmidt :

> The double role issue, if it occurs, is there in either case, separate
> relation or role in the bicycle route relation.
>

If a way or a chain of ways in a route relation has no
forward/backward role,  you can assign it a transfer/transport role.Easy
for e.g. ferries operating in both directions.

If the bicycle has split directions and transfer/transport is also
different for the travel directions, I think a route_master relation is
needed for the transfer. The superroute will have as members: the bicycle
relation up to the transport; the routemaster relation with the
transfer role, and the section of the bicycle route at the other side of
the transfer.

I think for most bicycle routes this kind of transfer will have a shared
way or shared point near the transport. So I think this will not happen
very often.But if it does, tagging can be done as described above without
ever having to combine roles. Processing is another matter, though.


> Regarding travel details of ferry/rail/bus sections within bicycle routes:
> This information, if available, should go on the the ferry/rail/bus route
> relations, as these means of transport are not exclusive to the bike route,
> at least in most cases, and therefore should have their own relations
> independently of bicycle travel.
>
> In more general terms, this intermodal transport problem is a big black
> hole in OSM in general. The commercial competition is spending a lot of
> money in that sector. I am not sure we can or even want to compete with
> that.
>

 The development is instant point-to-point routing over different
networks and transport modes. Route relations pre-combine elements to
form a fixed route for a particular  purpose, e.g. a theme or named trail
to be followed exactly. I don't think roles in fixed route relations will
solve the instant routing challenge!


> On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 09:53, Peter Elderson  wrote:
>
>> Jo:
>>
>>> I added that it's not needed for ferries in the proposal on the wiki.
>>> It's alright if we have more than 1 way to do it and leave it up to the
>>> mapper to decide whether to map as a single route relation or split them
>>> and use a superroute relation.
>>>
>>
>> Wouldn't this apply to other transfer/transport sections as well?
>>
>>
>>> If I start doing a bicycle tour, I want to know in advance if I'll be
>>> able to cycle the whole stretch, or if there will be waiting time for other
>>> means of transportation. I would also like to know if there will be a fee
>>> to pay for these means of transportation and whether it's necessary to
>>> hurry, in case there is only 1 per x hours, or they don't function at
>>> night. By using separate route relations, it becomes possible to add
>>> opening hours and a frequency/period on them.
>>>
>>
>> Wouldn't this apply to ferries as well?
>> _
>>
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=schoolyard

2020-08-31 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
It's been a while that I have been to school, but from memory, as well as
from the current situation I see from my kids at their school, the school
grounds are basically the same as the "Pausenhof". E.g. in my school,
pupils had their respective spaces according to age groups or maybe
classes, and basically all the available space was distributed.

Maybe that's different from your experience (I could imagine teacher's
parking being excluded, for example).

Cheers
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=schoolyard

2020-08-31 Thread joost schouppe
Hi Martin,

I stumbled upon the page when looking for something better than
leisure=playground for the concrete slabs that are used for recess and are
called "speelplaats" ("square for playing") in Dutch. I've added some links
to that page, which made you notice. I hadn't noticed myself that it's a
relatively recent page and that it's actually just a draft. That said, the
tag seems a good fit for "speelplaats", which seems to be the exact
equivalent of the German "Schulhof" which is described in the Discussion
section.

So quite different from "the rest of the schoolground" (students would
often be explicitly forbidden to stray from the designated speelplaats
during recess). And sure, you could have some classes there: for example
sometimes sports classes would be there, as there are many sports you can
do on a large paved area.


Op ma 31 aug. 2020 om 10:43 schreef Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com>:

> I just discovered someone has added leisure=schoolyard to the wiki. It is
> not completely clear to me how to apply this tag, is there a difference
> between the school grounds minus the buildings and the schoolyard? Which
> parts have to be excluded from a schoolyard? Does it only apply to spaces
> that are exclusively used for leisure or does it include outdoor areas
> where education will occasionally take place?
>
> Cheers Martin
>
>
> sent from a phone
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[Tagging] leisure=schoolyard

2020-08-31 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
I just discovered someone has added leisure=schoolyard to the wiki. It is not 
completely clear to me how to apply this tag, is there a difference between the 
school grounds minus the buildings and the schoolyard? Which parts have to be 
excluded from a schoolyard? Does it only apply to spaces that are exclusively 
used for leisure or does it include outdoor areas where education will 
occasionally take place?

Cheers Martin 


sent from a phone
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Re: [Tagging] Rail segment in a bike route

2020-08-31 Thread Volker Schmidt
The double role issue, if it occurs, is there in either case, separate
relation or role in the bicycle route relation.

Regarding travel details of ferry/rail/bus sections within bicycle routes:
This information, if available, should go on the the ferry/rail/bus route
relations, as these means of transport are not exclusive to the bike route,
at least in most cases, and therefore should have their own relations
independently of bicycle travel.

In more general terms, this intermodal transport problem is a big black
hole in OSM in general. The commercial competition is spending a lot of
money in that sector. I am not sure we can or even want to compete with
that.




On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 09:53, Peter Elderson  wrote:

> Jo:
>
>> I added that it's not needed for ferries in the proposal on the wiki.
>> It's alright if we have more than 1 way to do it and leave it up to the
>> mapper to decide whether to map as a single route relation or split them
>> and use a superroute relation.
>>
>
> Wouldn't this apply to other transfer/transport sections as well?
>
>
>> If I start doing a bicycle tour, I want to know in advance if I'll be
>> able to cycle the whole stretch, or if there will be waiting time for other
>> means of transportation. I would also like to know if there will be a fee
>> to pay for these means of transportation and whether it's necessary to
>> hurry, in case there is only 1 per x hours, or they don't function at
>> night. By using separate route relations, it becomes possible to add
>> opening hours and a frequency/period on them.
>>
>
> Wouldn't this apply to ferries as well?
> _
>
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>>
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Re: [Tagging] Rail segment in a bike route

2020-08-31 Thread Peter Elderson
Jo:

> I added that it's not needed for ferries in the proposal on the wiki. It's
> alright if we have more than 1 way to do it and leave it up to the mapper
> to decide whether to map as a single route relation or split them and use a
> superroute relation.
>

Wouldn't this apply to other transfer/transport sections as well?


> If I start doing a bicycle tour, I want to know in advance if I'll be able
> to cycle the whole stretch, or if there will be waiting time for other
> means of transportation. I would also like to know if there will be a fee
> to pay for these means of transportation and whether it's necessary to
> hurry, in case there is only 1 per x hours, or they don't function at
> night. By using separate route relations, it becomes possible to add
> opening hours and a frequency/period on them.
>

Wouldn't this apply to ferries as well?
_

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Re: [Tagging] Rail segment in a bike route

2020-08-31 Thread Jo
I added that it's not needed for ferries in the proposal on the wiki. It's
alright if we have more than 1 way to do it and leave it up to the mapper
to decide whether to map as a single route relation or split them and use a
superroute relation.

If I start doing a bicycle tour, I want to know in advance if I'll be able
to cycle the whole stretch, or if there will be waiting time for other
means of transportation. I would also like to know if there will be a fee
to pay for these means of transportation and whether it's necessary to
hurry, in case there is only 1 per x hours, or they don't function at
night. By using separate route relations, it becomes possible to add
opening hours and a frequency/period on them.

Jo

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:52 AM Peter Elderson  wrote:

> 'transport' role, 'transportation' role ... is this in use and
> documented somewhere?
>
> In bicycle routes, when the ways are different for the two directions,
> forward and backward roles apply to the ways in the relation.  If a
> transfer/transport/transportation is to be applied as well, how would you
> combine this? Multiple roles are currently not defined.
>
> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>
>
> Op ma 31 aug. 2020 om 08:16 schreef Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
>
>> On 31/8/20 8:25 am, Volker Schmidt wrote:
>> > Keep it simple, if the simple solution does not limit you.
>> >
>>
>> Agreed. I see no reason why a way as a member of a simple route relation
>> could not have the role 'transport'.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Rail segment in a bike route

2020-08-31 Thread Peter Elderson
'transport' role, 'transportation' role ... is this in use and
documented somewhere?

In bicycle routes, when the ways are different for the two directions,
forward and backward roles apply to the ways in the relation.  If a
transfer/transport/transportation is to be applied as well, how would you
combine this? Multiple roles are currently not defined.

Vr gr Peter Elderson


Op ma 31 aug. 2020 om 08:16 schreef Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> On 31/8/20 8:25 am, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> > Keep it simple, if the simple solution does not limit you.
> >
>
> Agreed. I see no reason why a way as a member of a simple route relation
> could not have the role 'transport'.
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Rail segment in a bike route

2020-08-31 Thread Jo
We've been doing it for years for ferries, so in that case I agree that
it's somewhat overkill.

In the case of transferring to a train or bus, I don't think it's overkill
to be explicit about it though. It seems really odd to me to have railway
ways or highway ways with bicycle=no|use_sidepath as members of a bicycle
route relation, which is what would happen in the case of the specialised
bus that takes bicycles through a tunnel.

The alternative is that we change the validator to disregard ways with the
role transport. Sure that would work as well.

Jo

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:16 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 31/8/20 8:25 am, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> > Keep it simple, if the simple solution does not limit you.
> >
>
> Agreed. I see no reason why a way as a member of a simple route relation
> could not have the role 'transport'.
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Rail segment in a bike route

2020-08-31 Thread Warin

On 31/8/20 8:25 am, Volker Schmidt wrote:

Keep it simple, if the simple solution does not limit you.



Agreed. I see no reason why a way as a member of a simple route relation 
could not have the role 'transport'.




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