Re: [Tagging] Test prep centres and cram schools as amenity=prep_school?

[石野貴之]

Hello.

Tagging schemes for cram schools and tutorial centers have been discussed
very often,
but none of the discussion got to the solid conclusion.

I am strongly concerned about the situation, and requested for comments on
my diary.
ML: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-May/045457.html
English: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/yumean1119/diary/364867
Japanese: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/yumean1119/diary/364501

My proposal is the following:
1. Use a well-documented tag for the main tag. I think
office=educational_institution would be the best, but amenity=prep_school
or another tagging is also OK.
2. Then, add education=cram_school or education=tutoring as an auxiliary tag.

When I posted my idea on the discussion page at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative
There was a comment by Warin61:

--cited from
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative
--
Because it would be confusing to have educational features under 2 keys
particularly when one of them is named *educational*. Think about teaching
a new mapper, a clear logical order is far easier to learn than one where
some bits are other there while others are in yet another area. Warin61
 (talk
) 08:54, 9 June 2019
(UTC)
--end--

Yeah, I must admit that having two keys in one feature is cofusing.
However, throwing away current tags like amenity=school and promoting to
use education=* tags is much worse. This obviously breaks forward
compatibility. That's why I want to use education=* as a sub tag, not as a
main tag.

I think it's the chance of a lifetime to deepen the discussion about
tagging educational features, because today is the very day someone
chaneged the status at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative
to abandoned and the original auther Erkinalp reverted the status back to
proposed. This shows he/she has not lost the motivation!

Takayuki Ishino (User: yumean1119)
yumean1...@gmail.com
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Re: [Tagging] New way to use tagging: simple questions with no prep_discussion: tag for a IT School ?

[石野貴之]

Hello, yo and Paul.

2019年6月9日(日) 8:16 Paul Allen :

> On Sat, 8 Jun 2019 at 23:46, yo paseopor  wrote:
>
>>
>> Whats is the tag for a IT school like this?
>> http://www.mecabit.com/
>>
>
> If it's an educational facility then it looks like amenity=college.  If
> it's more of a "get people into
> employment by various means" thing then social_facility=outreach +
> social_facility:for=unemployed.
>

I think both amenity=college and social_facility=outreach make sense, and
office=it  would be even acceptable.
However, these tagging diversity will make it difficult to know this
facility is related to IT education.
How about using education=speciality (or, education=it) together with them?

I totally agree with:
> PD: education scheme has to be improved. A non-schoolar education scheme
would be interesting.
and we have to move the following proposal forward.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative

Takayuki Ishino
yumean1...@gmail.com
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Re: [Tagging] A simple survey and proposal about tagging cram schools

[石野貴之]

2019年5月23日(木) 4:22 Jmapb :

>
> Hi! Just in case you missed it, we had brief and inconclusive
> discussions of these earlier this year:
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-January/042561.html
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-February/042983.html
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-March/043617.html
>
>
 Thank you for the information.
My main idea is almost identical with what is presented in the last thread.
I have two reasons to express this idea in my diary.
1. OSM Japan community is not so aware of the current situation and issues
of tagging educational institutions outside of school.
I wrote a Japanese diary first to pose a problem to our community and asked
the readers to give comments.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/yumean1119/diary/364501
I thought it would be great to have opinions from all over the world.
That's why I posted a diary in English too.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/yumean1119/diary/364867

2. My goal is to organize tagging schemes on various types of educational
institutions, not only on cram school or tutoring school.
I have been worried about the slow progress in discussing a simple tagging
scheme(education=*)
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative
and I felt the need to decide our policy on using education=* tags before
we go to the next step.(e.g. deprecating amenity=school;university and so
on)

Takayuki Ishino
yumean1...@gmail.com
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[Tagging] A simple survey and proposal about tagging cram schools

[石野貴之]

Hello.
I have wanted to organize tagging schemes of educational institutions
outside school. I conducted a very simple survey and uploaded the result
and my opinion in
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/yumean1119/diary/364867
.

I would be glad if you give me any comments.

Takayuki Ishino
yumean1...@gmail.com
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Top_up (fifth revision)

[石野貴之]

Hello.

2019年5月11日(土) 5:30 bkil :

> I've read in the previous rejection comments that many opposed to
> putting brand details in keys. What do you think about this version:
> prepaid_top_up:mobile=yes/. The reason is that around here,
> you could top up your mobile phone either at the given carrier, kiosks
> over generic online charging or at given supermarket chains
> (supporting fixed subsets of carriers). We could easily map such
> detail when importing the given supermarket chain's data. We have
> already raised this question during previous imports before this
> proposal was started.
>
>
I'm in favor for your idea of putting brand details. The reason is mainly
because:

*【There should be consistency between prepaid_top_up tag and payment tag.】*

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:payment

For example, there are many kinds of public_transport cards in the world
and payment:* tag supports them. (icsf cards like Suica in Japan, Oyster
card in the UK, T-money card in Korea and so on.) A tag like
prepaid_top_up:public_transport=yes is insufficient, We cannot use Oyster
card in Japan!  Where you can use Suica, there should be top_up machines
for it.

Other types of rechargeable cards or mobile phone applications may be more
limited in use. I proposed using prepaid_top_up:gaming=yes in the
discussion page, but more specific tags like prepaid_top_up:gaming=paseli
sound better for me. Paseli is operated by Konami, so it cannot be used in
games by other companies(Sega, Taito,...).

Thank you.

Takayuki Ishino
yumean1...@gmail.com

>
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Re: [Tagging] Japan road tagging (Was "what todo if the status of a propal isn't set to Voting")

[石野貴之]

Hello.

2019年5月9日(木) 7:57 Graeme Fitzpatrick :

> On Thu, 9 May 2019 at 06:15, marc marc  wrote:
>
>> Some use the status to check propal with the status=Voting
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Proposals_with_%22Voting%22_status
>
>
> When I had a look at that page, I noticed
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Japan_tagging/Road_types,
> which I hadn't seen discussed previously.
>
> This feature has been proposed by our fellow, Yuu Hayashi. You may think
this hasn't been discussed previously, but it's totally wrong. He has been
working on Japanese road tagging for more than four years.

I am also involved in the discussion. If you read Japanese, see the
following pages about cycleway and living_street.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Japan_tagging/Road_types_2/cycleway
*https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Japan_tagging/Road_types_2/living_street*



> I think it may be for changing road details in Japan only, but also seems
> to refer to general highway classifications under the "What pages are
> affected" heading?
>
> Is it possible to change details for only one country, or would this
> proposal change all highway details, worldwide?
>
If so, shouldn't that be discussed much more widely?
>
> This discussion is aimed for deciding local rules in Japan only and will
not affect highway details all over the world.

Thank you.

Takayuki Ishino
yumean1...@gmail.com

>
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Re: [Tagging] Why should we avoid overusage of amenity=* tag?

[石野貴之]

Thank you for the reply.

> These difficulties, and opposing ideas on how to deal with existing tags,
make it hard to change established tagging schemes. But I am strongly in
favour of not establishing new amenity=* for hitherto unmapped facilites,
but rather use new tags altogether, whose use can then be expanded into
proper tagging schemes.

I support your idea using new tags altogether with existing tags.
Then, how about the following examples? Do you think them good ideas?

 (a) *office=educational_institution* and *education=cram-school* for
Japanese *juku*s aimed for entrance examinations.

 (b) *shop=computer* and *education=specialty* if a computer shop provides
a workshop to learn how to use computers.

Takayuki Ishino
yumean1...@gmail.com
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Re: [Tagging] Why should we avoid overusage of amenity=* tag?

[石野貴之]

Thank you for the speedy reply!

2019年4月21日(日) 9:13 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> On 21/04/19 05:31, Paul Allen wrote:
>
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2019 at 19:52, 石野貴之  wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't know the reason why we should not use amenity=* too much. If you
>> have time, please let me know.
>>
>> Lack of specificity.  It's nice to be able to categorize things.
>
>
> I also feel it great if we can categorize things in a more sophisticated
way.

However, tags like amenity=school and amenity=university are so widely used
that upward compatibility would be lost
after changing them into education=school and education=university.

We have a great deal of needs in distinguishing unofficial educational
facilities such as cram schools, vocational training centers and cooking
classes
from official educational ones(schools,universities,...). Also, there will
be a positive effect if we can separate them from facilities which should
be
office=educational_institute and cannnot be used by students(like
educational comittees, headquarter offices for educational companies and so
on).

I think that our discussion about these tagging schemes is in very slow
progress. In my opinion, a proposal on a new tag like
amenity=educational_services
is more effective rather than shifting to educational=* tagging schemes.

Takayuki Ishino
yumean1...@gmail.com

>
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[Tagging] Why should we avoid overusage of amenity=* tag?

[石野貴之]

Hello. I am yumean1119 from Japan and mapping mainly around Okayama.

Recently, I have surfed some proposal pages about new tagging schems for
educational facilities.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Education_2.0

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative

They seem to be bad ideas since the proposed education=* tags are redundant
over the existing amenity=school/kindergarten/university... tags.

So I thought it would be good to use these education=* tags together with a
new tag for education outside school only, for example,
amenity=educational_service.

However, the proposal pages say:
>  There has been arguements not to make a amenity
=*

for everything that exists on the planet.

I don't know the reason why we should not use amenity=* too much. If you
have time, please let me know.

Takayuki Ishino
yumean1...@gmail.com
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