Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour

2014-09-22 Thread Mishari Muqbil
Hi Dan,

I realise that it's my fault for not being very clear from the beginning. I 
think as John mentions, amenity=soapland is about right. I do suspect that the 
establishments in Thailand are based on the same concept as those which exist 
in Japan.

Should I create an entry in the wiki for this?

On 9/22/14 14:05, Dan S wrote:
 2014-09-22 7:29 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de:
  On 21.09.2014 11:04, Dan S wrote:
 
  It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your
  specific issue:
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage
 
  please don't use shop=massage for this kind of places.
 
  I really don't want them to show up on a map next to Wat Pho massage just
  because the map creator does not take into account some additional tagging
  which says yes, it's tagged as a massage, but this tag tells you it isn't.
 
  Additional tags can specify something further, but should not change the
  meaning in general.

 The original message said this kind of place offers bathing + massage
 services plus the sexual stuff. My advice was based on that
 description. You seem to be saying that these places _don't_ offer
 massage services. I don't actually know which of these is true!

 Dan

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Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour

2014-09-21 Thread Mishari Muqbil
Hi,

I saw that, but I'm not convinced it's the right approach as what I'm
referring require a specific massage parlor license to operate as
opposed to a regular traditional massage establishment which is more
suited for shop=massage. I think it would be akin to saying a
convenience store and supermarket can all be tagged the same way. Also,
I'm not comfortable with using sexual as it could be libelous to state
that something illegal is taking place in these establishments (for
example, you won't do shop=convenience+marijuana=yes in most parts of
the world).

How about something like a combination of:
amenity=massage_parlour
male=yes
female=no
min_age=21

This should be quite accurate.

On 21/9/14 16:04, Dan S wrote:
 Hi -
 
 It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your
 specific issue:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage
 
 Best
 Dan
 
 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil mish...@mishari.net:
 Hi,

 Thailand has these places called entertainment complexes[1]  that
 offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is
 that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag
 them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2].

 I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the
 Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken
 for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world.
 Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps
 leisure=soapy_massage? :)

 One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as
 landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia
 http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La
 Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and
 Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw

 Any thoughts?

 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat
 [2]
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act
 [3]
 http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94
 --
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 Mishari Muqbil
 EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946

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Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour

2014-09-21 Thread Mishari Muqbil
Hi,

To avoid having the word massage throwing off the discussion, I'll
refer to it under it's legal name of entertainment place.

I'll go ahead with the restrictions then, but the other issue is the
specific legal classification that entertainment places fall under[1] as
opposed to a regular, much smaller place which offer massages and have
the same restrictions posted on the door.

You need a specific license to operate a entertainment place which
makes it subject to zoning, taxes and other laws and an establishment
that operates under this legal definition and license should be tagged
accordingly.

[1]
http://www.lawreform.go.th/lawreform/eng/index.php?option=com_homelawreformentask=showtoclid=705gid=6eword=Pename=Acts%20of%20Parliamentelawname=Public%20Entertainment%20Place%20Act,%20B.E.%202509%20%281966%29

On 9/21/14 22:07, Dan S wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Well, that suggestion specifies access limits (i.e. only males age 21
 or more), and if those are true facts and they're what you want to
 indicate, then go ahead. The access limits don't really tell you if
 something is soapy or not, but if you decide you only want to imply
 that and not to state it explicitly, your approach sounds OK to me.
 
 However, there's NO reason to use amenity=massage_parlour when
 shop=massage already exists. Please use it. You said you want to avoid
 confusion between soapy and family-friendly, and your age-restriction
 works for that, no need to create a duplicate tag.
 
 Best
 Dan
 
 
 2014-09-21 14:52 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil mish...@mishari.net:
 Hi,

 I saw that, but I'm not convinced it's the right approach as what I'm
 referring require a specific massage parlor license to operate as
 opposed to a regular traditional massage establishment which is more
 suited for shop=massage. I think it would be akin to saying a
 convenience store and supermarket can all be tagged the same way. Also,
 I'm not comfortable with using sexual as it could be libelous to state
 that something illegal is taking place in these establishments (for
 example, you won't do shop=convenience+marijuana=yes in most parts of
 the world).

 How about something like a combination of:
 amenity=massage_parlour
 male=yes
 female=no
 min_age=21

 This should be quite accurate.

 On 21/9/14 16:04, Dan S wrote:
 Hi -

 It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your
 specific issue:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage

 Best
 Dan

 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil mish...@mishari.net:
 Hi,

 Thailand has these places called entertainment complexes[1]  that
 offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is
 that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag
 them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2].

 I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the
 Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken
 for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world.
 Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps
 leisure=soapy_massage? :)

 One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as
 landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia
 http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La
 Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and
 Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw

 Any thoughts?

 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat
 [2]
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act
 [3]
 http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94
 --
 Best regards
 Mishari Muqbil
 EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946

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[Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour

2014-09-20 Thread Mishari Muqbil
Hi,

Thailand has these places called entertainment complexes[1]  that
offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is
that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag
them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2].

I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the
Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken
for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world.
Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps
leisure=soapy_massage? :)

One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as
landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia
http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La
Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and
Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw

Any thoughts?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat
[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act
[3]
http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94
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Re: [Tagging] Ablution area

2014-08-31 Thread Mishari Muqbil
How about if it was amenity=ablution and religion=* or even religion=yes?

On 8/31/14 21:09, John Packer wrote:
 amenity=religious_ablution or similar would be better indeed.
 
 
 2014-08-31 10:19 GMT-03:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com
 mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com:
 
 I don't know about that. I only wanted to point out that there are
 other usages of that word. The religious context is only one of
 several so there might be some disagreement on dedicating any future
 tags to that use. 
 
 
 On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Stephan Knauss
 o...@stephans-server.de mailto:o...@stephans-server.de wrote:
 
 On 31.08.2014 01 tel:31.08.2014%2001:24, André Pirard wrote:
 
 On 2014-08-30 10:55, Dave Swarthout wrote :
 
 FWIW, I traveled extensively in New Zealand a few years
 ago and there
 an ablution block (or ablution area) is a place in a
 campground
 where one washes things — dishes, clothing, etc. That
 definition of
 ablution is also a sort of purification, I reckon.
 
 In French, ablution means hygienic body washing. Misleading.
 Purification is a secondary meaning.
 
 
 I think the intended use is for use in a religious context.
 
 The tag should be in a way that it's not used for dish-washing
 and ritual purification the same time.
 
 Do you think the word is too generic? or the amenity key not
 suitable for it?
 
 Stephan
 
 
 
 
 
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[Tagging] Ablution area

2014-08-30 Thread Mishari Muqbil
Hi,

I would like to propose a new tag for Ablution (ritual purification).
Wikipedia says that that there's Ablution in Islam, Christianity and
Judaism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablution and worship sites usually
have an area set aside for this.

Islam:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ablution_area_inside_Eastern_wall_of_Badshahi_mosque.JPG

Judaism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_washing_in_Judaism#mediaviewer/File:Ramban_Synagogue_IMG_0027.JPG

I would like to tag it as amenity=ablution for a stand alone facility as
pictured above or ablution=yes if a toilet has facilities specifically
for performing ablution.

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EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946

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[Tagging] Archway

2014-08-30 Thread Mishari Muqbil
Hi,

In this photo http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/idFfQ3kADwqnRL25JEF78g
http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/j_Uwf2UAiHjKi_ovtcu_LQ there's a
landmark up ahead at the entrance to the housing project that resembles
an arch. It's quite a prominent landmark in an area which is otherwise
devoid of any distinct features. Does anyone have an idea as to how to
tag this?

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EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946

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