Re: [Tagging] [tagging] Amenity=Ufficio_Pubblico

2014-12-15 Thread sabas88
2014-12-15 15:52 GMT+01:00 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com:



 2014-12-15 15:42 GMT+01:00 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com:

 I know we have an unusual amount of bureaucracy in Italy, but we may not
 need a custom tag for it

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dpublic_building


 Why is this abandoned? I just read the talk page, but it is not really
 clear to me.


TBH I didn't notice the message.. :-)

BUT it could make sense to me (what about different offices in same
building?) , for example replacing it with building=public +
office=government
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:office%3Dgovernment


Regards,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] [tagging] Amenity=Ufficio_Pubblico

2014-12-15 Thread sabas88
2014-12-15 17:03 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:


 2014-12-15 15:42 GMT+01:00 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com:

 Hi,
 I know we have an unusual amount of bureaucracy in Italy, but we may not
 need a custom tag for it



 from my experience it is mostly not the amount of bureaucracy but the
 response times that are a real show stopper ;-)




 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dpublic_building



 this is not a really an alternative, as it is not a synonymon, it is about
 a public building (and implicitly referring - how I interpret the
 intentions of the tag - to public services inside the building), and would
 from my interpretation include a lot of services that won't be included in
 ufficio pubblico (e.g. libraries, museums, schools, ...).

 Still I agree that amenity=ufficio_pubblico is in no way a good tag idea.
 First - if we were to introduce a country-specific tag for the public
 administration, what I oppose like you do - I'd expect a namespace for
 this, like it:ufficio_pubblico (to indicate that the tag is in Italian).

 Secondly, if the reason to introduce this tag was to tag informagiovani,
 and if this is their homepage: http://www.informagiovani.it/ , I wouldn't
 even classify these as public administration, as they are privately run.
 There are English words to express the concept of ufficio pubblico and
 the tag - if chosen as generic as it is here - could well be in English. As
 a tag proposal for this specific institution I would have expected
 something on the same specificy level, e.g. amenity=it:informagiovani
 (but I wouldn't support such a specific toplevel tag either).


 IMHO we should define the type of service that informagiovani is offering,
 and then try to find a suitable tag. Up to now there is no actual
 documentation or definition on the proposal page:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ufficio_pubblico


The one in my city is run by the municipality (
http://www.informagiovani.comune.genova.it/) and gives information and
assistance (mainly, but not exclusively) to young people on education and
work topics..

cheers,
 Martin



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Re: [Tagging] Problems with historic=tomb

2014-10-16 Thread sabas88
2014-10-16 8:33 GMT+02:00 Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com:

 It seems that are serious problems with this tag, is there somebody
 interested in
 this topic who want to make a better proposal?

 (1) This tag can not be used on the same object as
 historic=archaeological_site -
 despite the fact that many archaeological sites are excavated tombs.

 (2) There is no clear limit for notability, most likely this tag will be
 in future used to
 describe any grave. Even now, some people are using it this way. The same
 happened with natural=tree - originally defined as lone or significant
 tree.

 (3) There is no proposed tag to use for ordinary grave, further encuraging
 using this tag in way other than defined.


There are used these two
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tomb
and
http://taginfo.osm.org/tags/cemetery=grave#overview

The first is a structured proposal, the second is just used


 see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dtomb

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Water tap

2014-10-10 Thread sabas88
2014-10-10 19:05 GMT+02:00 Kotya Karapetyan kotya.li...@gmail.com:

 Dear all,

 I would hereby like to propose a new value for the man_made tag:

 man_made=water_tap

 The proposal page is:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/water_tap


Hi,
I use
amenity=drinking_water + drinkable=no

Now I see this tag http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:drinkable

Perhaps it's nonsensical but...
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=entrance%3Dexit


 Thanks for comments in advance!

 Cheers,
 Kotya



Cheers,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] University accommodation (was Re: Future proposal - RFC - amenity=dormitory)

2014-09-20 Thread sabas88
On 19 Sep 2014 16:54, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote:

 On 19.09.2014 14:22 Dan S wrote:
   for buildings:   building=residential + residential=university +
operator=*
  OR
   for sites:   landuse=residential + residential=university + operator=*
 
  Note that the same scheme seems to me to work well for building and for
landuse.
 
  I thought this had been discussed on tagging recently, but I can't
  find it, all I can find is the RFC for amenity=dormitory, currently
  used 263 times. (I will add that dormitory is certainly a little odd
  from a British English point of view, notwithstanding the comments
  already made to the RFC.)

 That proposal now suggests amenity=student_accommodation, precisely
 because of the oddness involved with the term dormitory.

 Personally, I prefer using the amenity key rather than building or
 landuse. Landuse lacks the implication that this is one distinct
 facility, and building values are not supposed to represent usage, but
 how the building is built.

+1
I tagged some student residences as tourism=guest_house previously, but
they aren't buildings (some are apartments inside buildings, but owned by
the local government agency for student services).

Stefano
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Port and terminals

2014-07-12 Thread sabas88
2014-07-08 11:44 GMT+02:00 Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de:

  We could use a single polygon per terminal tagged as in the proposal
 (similar to other landuse types) if we need to go in detail. If needed
 using also multiple values (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semicolon)


 If you read the page you will see that it pretty much says: DON'T USE
 SEMI-COLONS UNLESS THERE IS NOT OTHER OPTION.

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semicolon#Better_alternatives
 Would for example work here.


Hi Andreas,
thanks, I added a notice under Tagging section (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landuse%3Dport#Multiple_values_handling
)

As general reminder, there's a week left to vote the proposals
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landuse%3Dport
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Intermodal_Terminal

Regards,
Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Port and terminals

2014-07-07 Thread sabas88
2014-07-07 16:50 GMT+02:00 Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de:

 This proposal needs EXAMPLES, EXAMPLES and more EXAMPLES!!!


Hi Andreas,
thanks for the email..
I will try to follow your suggestion :-)



 I would like to see some examples that show everything in one picture:
 habour, ports, port authority boundary +names etc. Should also be of one
 which highlighs the differences (so not one with just 1 port and where
 port=habour) I'm happy if this is just a screenshot with some MS Paint
 (such a image will be needed for the Wiki Page later anyway)


Okay, seems legit.
From previous email I am wondering if my way is correct (I am using
landuse=port to identify single terminals, and distinguish them with
category).



 That table needs clean up. At lof of things make no sense as port
 (Syncrolift) others bascially mean the same (Ferry/Passenger).
 It is also missing things: http://goo.gl/pw5K0P, http://goo.gl/Xj7DIt


I basically followed the category from IHO to stay if possible coherent
with OpenSeaMap. Could you link where you've taken these lists?
These features seem partially already defined in OSM (marina, dock)



 You also have to decide if you want main and sub categories. Like traiding
 or cargo port and container or bulk. Then you might want to use
 cargo:containers=yes instead of port:category=containers. Or you may want
 to put some of that information into the harbour or terminals.


Uhm, could you please clarify this point?

Thanks,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Port and terminals

2014-07-07 Thread sabas88
2014-07-07 17:09 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:


 2014-07-05 14:02 GMT+02:00 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com:


 For port proposal and voting page see
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landuse%3Dport



 In this case there is hardly a definition, it is hidden  under a
 differences between harbour and port but there is no clear definition and
 description how to structure such a facility in OSM. Please also consider
 extending the abbreviations like roro (roll-on_roll-off), bulk
 (bulk_terminal), etc.


As I explained in the talk page previously, I would like to stay with roro
as a value, because it's more common in the usage.
Adding _terminal on some terms seem legit (container and bulk), but what
about restricting the proposal to the values truly related to terminals
instead of copying the IHO definition? (so we remove straddle_carrier and
such)



 I am not sure that port is nice as landuse value (it is quite specific,
 even more when adding the subtag port:category), I would rather see these
 as man_made values.

 Usage of two classification systems (port:type and port:category), both
 with generic names, might also lead to confusion. I'd try to be more
 specific with the tag-denominators, e.g. the port:category (if I got it
 right you are proposing to split the port into several smaller areas, each
 with the tags landuse=port and port:category=* ?) could become distinct
 man_made (or amenity) tags like man_made=quarantine_station rather than
 landuse=port and port:category=quarantine.



 For intermodal terminal proposal and voting page see
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Intermodal_Terminal




 There is not definition whatsoever on this page, only a rationale and
 two links to external sites (

- http://www.intermodal-terminals.eu/content/e15/index_eng.html
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_freight_transport

 )

 Links to external sites are bad as reference, because they might not be
 stable/permanent, i.e. they might change, get restructured, split, etc.
 Please copy the essence / relevant parts to your proposal so we have a
 definition in our wiki what this is about.


Good point.

 Please add a definition what this tag should be used for, and what are the
 criteria for a intermodal terminal to be a such.


 Same thing as before, I should add a description from those links.

 cheers,

 Martin


Thanks,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Port and terminals

2014-07-07 Thread sabas88
2014-07-07 17:47 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:


 2014-07-07 17:21 GMT+02:00 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com:

 As I explained in the talk page previously, I would like to stay with roro
 as a value, because it's more common in the usage.



 I still believe you should expand this. It might be more common for
 specialists to use the abbreviation, but in OSM most mappers won't be naval
 specialists and will have no clue what roro is about. It is a common
 requirement for osm tags to be explicit and to avoid abbreviations.


A little survey with other mappers came up with alternatives to your
proposal:
- roll_on-roll_off
- ROFTL

Less characters like underscores and hyphens please (see sub(.*)station
proposal).. :-)
Also, for a non-naval specialist I believe that ferry and roro it's
interchangeable..

 cheers,
 Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Port and terminals

2014-07-07 Thread sabas88
Dear all,
I edited the two proposals as required.
Regarding the intermodal_terminal, I added a definition and some pictures.

Considering the port proposal, I made more extensive changes to make it
more similar to other tags, as suggested by Martin. Mainly the idea is to
have categories in the port key (with a bonus port=cargo and removing the
-unuseful?- values and the one already defined), then specifying in case of
port=cargo the cargo handled (container terminals become landuse=port,
port=cargo, cargo=container).
Issues pending to be discussed:
- Martin suggested to use man_made instead of landuse;
- port:type is working as it is? (here I added that the value seaport is
implicit, but the other are needed when necessary)
- clarify the distinction in the difference with harbour.

Let me know!

Best regards,
Stefano
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Port and terminals

2014-07-06 Thread sabas88
2014-07-06 9:48 GMT+02:00 Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com:

 On 06/07/2014 08:24, nounours77 wrote:

 = So this would imply that port is a individual facility inside a
 harbour.

 In fact it is the other way round. A port my contain one or more harbours.
 (In turn, a harbour may contain zero or more docks and a dock may contain
 zero or more basins.) A port may also contain one or more terminals. In
 smaller ports, the port and harbour may be co-incident, hence the ambiguity
 between these terms.


Thank you both for the comments.
I based my proposal on IHO dictionary (
http://www.iho.int/iho_pubs/standard/S-32/S-32-eng.pdf ), seemed a bit
strange to me also, but as I interpreted definition 3950 and 2184, harbour
is meant as a geographical feature, whereas port is related to
infrastructure, and per 3950 port is located in an harbour (see also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbor )

Let me know how I can edit / disambiguate.



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Port and terminals

2014-07-06 Thread sabas88
2014-07-06 12:48 GMT+02:00 Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com:

 On 06/07/2014 10:45, sabas88 wrote:

 Let me know how I can edit / disambiguate.

  The important distinction is that a port is an administrative boundary
 (which may have several disjunct areas) whereas harbours, terminals, docks,
 wharves, basins, quays, etc. are physical features. Since those latter
 features will be administered by the port authority, they should all be
 within the port boundary(s).

 Take this example, it identifies a container terminal
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2952205#map=17/44.10635/9.85686

In this case the harbour tag should enclose La Spezia harbour.

In Genoa, landuse=harbour has been placed to represent a division used by
port authority (Sampierdarena West / East)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/148700342

For area administered by the authority (so all the harbours / ports), I
used a proper boundary from the official data
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2631548

It's correct my representation?

Cheers,
Stefano



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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Port and terminals

2014-07-05 Thread sabas88
Dear all,
after almost six months from the original proposal, now I would like to ask
you to vote these two new tags.

Accepting the tag landuse=port would improve the detailed tagging of port
areas, for example to tell apart container terminals (easily
distinguishable from satellite imagery) from passenger terminals and so on.

Alongside I ask you to vote the tag man_made=intermodal_terminal (areas
where freight traffic is moved between different transport modes, for
example from rail to trucks).

For port proposal and voting page see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landuse%3Dport

For intermodal terminal proposal and voting page see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Intermodal_Terminal

Voting is starting today, and it will end Saturday 19 July at 12pm GMT.

Thanks and best regards,
Stefano
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Re: [Tagging] Pipeline bridges

2014-06-19 Thread sabas88
If we consider aqueducts
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/176520234#map=18/44.45802/8.97848
http://www.acquedottogenova.altervista.org/images/01-primo%20itinerario/46_sifone%20geirato.jpg
http://www.oruko.altervista.org/images/curiosita-ponti/11b-sifone%20geirato.jpg

Otherwise here's a bridge/gas pipeline
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.434533,8.961157,3a,49.2y,174h,90.72t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1suvazafJHL3TJQ8kTGRRVwQ!2e0?hl=en

On OSM it's not tagged as pipeline http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/5625784

Regards,
Stefano


2014-06-19 10:33 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com:

 This one of my pipeline bridges:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/132791265

 https://www.google.com/maps/@45.292027,11.927267,3a,75y,153.47h,91.57t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sr2gRzPpcw10yML5dM5LgXQ!2e0
 You see it from miles away.


 On 19 June 2014 06:47, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 I'm going to dispute that claim and back it up with a recent news article
 and aerial view... can't recall if it's mapped in OSM yet, it's close
 enough to Lewis Avenue that I honestly didn't notice it driving until I got
 detoured around it earlier this month.

 http://www.newson6.com/story/25713388/interstate-244-near-lewis-shut-down

 http://maps.google.com/?q=36.160647,-95.957975hl=engl=us
 On Jun 18, 2014 5:13 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
 dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
  I expect that it would be [man_made=pipeline, location=overground,
  bridge=yes, layer=*].
  +1

 -1
 I would expect bridge=yes to be combined with highways only. Here
 nobody can walk/drive on the pipe. We don't call it a bridge.
 location=overground is enough.

 Pieren

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Re: [Tagging] admin_level on nodes: wiki vs practice

2014-05-11 Thread sabas88
On 11 May 2014 06:32, Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hm I've looked up a few other cities (Hamburg, Munich, Cologne, Lyon,
 Marseille, Rotterdam, Zurich, Manchester, Birmingham, Salzburg,
 Aarhus) and they do not have an admin_level tag on the place=* node.
 At the same time, I found some other cities that do: Paris [1],
 Kopenhagen [2], Barcelona [3], Madrid [4], Brussels [5], Amsterdam
 [6], Bern [7], Vienna [8], Rome [9], Milan [10]:

In Italy we use capital=* with the corresponding (minimum) admin level, so
Rome has capital=2 and so on..

Regards,
Stefano


 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/17807753
 [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/13707878
 [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/152364165
 [4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/21068295
 [5] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1635651356
 [6] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/268396336
 [7] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/18477455
 [8] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/17328659
 [9] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/72959652
 [10] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/62505581

 I see an approximate pattern: capital cities tend to have an
 admin_level tag, others tend not to have it. Maybe it's something in
 use for backward compatibility, such as an with and old renderer that
 uses it instead of the capital tag to render a label at lower zoom
 levels.

 On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de
wrote:
  Berlin
 
 
  Honestly looks like and error nobody has noticed yet. I mean
admin_level=2 ?
  Berlin is a city state which might justify =4, but unless we somehow tag
  capitals like this I don't see the reasoning behind this tag in the
first
  place.
 
  Andi
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 --
 Fernando Trebien
 +55 (51) 9962-5409

 Nullius in verba.

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Re: [Tagging] Study area

2014-02-27 Thread sabas88
2014-02-27 10:37 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com:

 @Stephan: I like the coworking_space idea. It certainly fits the practice
 at Punspace.

 IMO if we have the opportunity we shouldn't use amenity key.

 @Stefano: Why do you think we should not use the amenity key?


Because it's overcrowded and office should suit better, as coworking are
basically and most of the time offices ... :-)
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Re: [Tagging] Study area

2014-02-27 Thread sabas88
2014-02-27 12:06 GMT+01:00 Pieren pier...@gmail.com:

 On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 10:56 AM, sabas88 saba...@gmail.com wrote:

  Because it's overcrowded

 Today, it's less than shop ...

  and office should suit better, as coworking are
  basically and most of the time offices ... :-)

 I dont think office fits here, for something open to all publics in
 a shopping mall and with a coffee shop inside. If you use 'office'
 everytime you can sit down and put your laptop on a table, many
 restaurants, airports, tearooms, startbucks can be moved to the
 'office' key ;-)


I agree it's not the case of Dave's issue, but afaik coworkings are places
who sell office space (http://genova.talentgarden.org/#gallery this is the
one I tagged as office=coworking, because it defines as such)

What about community_centre?


 Pieren

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Re: [Tagging] Study area

2014-02-26 Thread sabas88
2014-02-27 8:45 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de:

 On 27.02.2014 01:48, Dave Swarthout wrote:

 @Martin, I'm not sure about the status of the books but that's not the
 prominent feature of this place. I will go back for more details later
 but it is definitely not a library.
 @Stephan - neither Punspace or Guru's Box are tagged. I brought that
 fact up during the meeting we had there and nobody had any ideas.
 Punspace is similar to the place I'm reporting here except it is not
 free and available for short term rental only.


 a while ago it was suggested to use office=coworking for coworking places.
 with fee=yes/no you could also distinguish the free and paid ones.

 In the co-working thread is sounded like office is the better key and
 should be preferred over amenity. Still in February a wiki page for the
 amenity key was created.

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aamenity%3Dcoworking_space


Well, it wasn't approved so it should be moved to Proposed_Features space..
IMO if we have the opportunity we shouldn't use amenity key.


 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2013-
 November/015668.html

 Taginfo:
 Count   Key Value
 48  amenity coworking_space
 15  office  coworking
 6   office  coworking_space
 2   amenity coworking_place


 Stephan


Regards,
Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] Help me locate this tag checking website.

2014-02-21 Thread sabas88
2014-02-21 20:43 GMT+01:00 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com:

 Hi

 I'm unable to remember the name or find the location of a tag checking web
 page.

 It was a slippy map of mapnik rendering that had a single line text box
 into which you could type a key, value or both  after a search would
 display an icon at the location of each occurrence. These icons were user
 selectable from a pull down list.

 Anybody recognise it  Is it still in existence?


http://osm.dumoulin63.net/xapiviewer/

This can be done also with overpass-turbo and a bit of work..

Cheers
 Dave F.


Cheers,
Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a public works facility ?

2014-02-19 Thread sabas88
2014-02-19 17:32 GMT+01:00 Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com:

 Any reasons not to use landuse=depot? Besides the sparsity of its wiki
 page...
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Ddepot
 428 instances in taginfo

 +1
But using depot:type=* instead of type=* (as I suggested in
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/RFC-Classification-for-ports-and-inland-terminals-td5792661.html)




 2014-02-19 16:27 GMT+00:00 Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com:
  For what it is worth, in the area I live in such facilities seem to be
 called corporate yards.
 
  Since industrial=depot seems to have only one use at present and does
 not fit exactly. At least it does not fit in my mind. Perhaps it could be
 tagged as landuse=industrial, industrial=corporate_yard with
 operator=City of  and maybe name=XXX Corporate Yard
 
  -Tod
 
 
 
  On Feb 19, 2014, at 3:37 AM, SomeoneElse wrote:
 
  Pieren wrote:
  It's a small area with several buildings where the municipality is
  storing vehicles and the maintenance and repair services.
 
  I've gone with landuse=industrial, industrial=depot for these in the
 past:
 
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254083705
 
  (although arguably the name on that should actually be operator)
 
  Someone
  suggests to use amenity=public_building but it's deprecated now in
  the wiki...
 
  Whoever edited the wiki clearly failed to communicate with all the
 editor authors since amenity=public_building is a default in P2 (not that
 it's relevant in this case, since what you're describing isn't just a
 building.
 
  Cheers,
 
  Andy
 
 
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a public works facility ?

2014-02-19 Thread sabas88
2014-02-19 18:20 GMT+01:00 Pieren pier...@gmail.com:



 Btw, use simply depot=* instead of depot:type=*. I don't
 understand this recent trend to add a :type suffix in subtags. It
 was not the case in the past (e.g. building=*, wood=*,
 traffic_signals=*, etc, etc, etc)


Simply because there's an overlap between the common use of type=container
(as in waste container) and the type=container of the depot proposal (as in
shipping container). IMO I had to clarify the tag...


 Pieren

 Regards,
Stefano


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[Tagging] [RFC] Classification for ports and inland terminals

2014-01-12 Thread sabas88
Dear all,
after the discussion regarding the seamark tagging I wanted to start some
proposals to have a consensus on a general way of tagging marine facilities
(and hopefully get them rendered  to solve incorrect tagging for the
renderer :-) [1]).
With this proposal I wanted to give a unique tag to describe ports, in the
IHO meaning.
I am proposing a landuse=port which should be used for harbour parts like
terminals (container, bulk,...) and it's compatible with the OpenSeaMap tag.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landuse%3Dport

A latere I created two proposals for tags that I am using:
- a port_authority value for boundaries (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/boundary%3Dport_authority
)
- a tag for intermodal terminals (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Intermodal_Terminal)

Concluding, I was considering to revive the Depot proposal[2] with the
depot:type key to use for container depots tagging[3].

Hoping to get feedback, regards,
Stefano

[0]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2013-December/015923.html
[1] https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/300
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Depot
[3] http://www.doorncontainers.nl/images/overview.jpg
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Re: [Tagging] OpenSeaMap tagging - seamark-prefix was Re: [Imports] IENC of the German WSV

2013-12-11 Thread sabas88
2013/12/11 Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com

 We (OpenSeaMap) are open to suggestions on this. The harbour project has
 recently been re-started after a hiatus of several years. As we are
 building a separate database to contain imports from various public harbour
 data sources. These harbour objects only require a simple
 seamark:type=harbour tag to cause our map to render an icon and pop-up
 data from this database with a mouse hover. The question is: how do OSM
 mappers contribute to this data? Hence the facility availability tags.
 (These tags have existed for years, but were rarely used).

 I would be interested to hear (constructive!) ideas.


I started adding some details regarding marine tagging and I somehow found
difficult to search for exact tags (example:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/418883069), so I would like to  see more
integration between OSM and OpenSeaMap.

An example: I started adding UN/ECE locodes with the tag ref:LOCODE as
opposed to the seamark tagging because the codes are given also to inland
locations.

It's still unclear to me how to tag some details in container terminals,
but this could span another discussion..

(Regarding rendering, the main osm style could catch some openseamap tags
to improve visualization of marine facilities and stimulate the
contribution, but this is also a little bit offtopic)

Regards,
Stefano



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Re: [Tagging] tag for co-working spaces

2013-11-25 Thread sabas88
2013/11/25 Severin MENARD severin.men...@gmail.com

 Hi,

 Seems this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coworking does not exist yet.
 Here is the taginfo situation
 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=working_space#values

 What about a office=co_working_space or office=co-working_space?

 Hi,
I'd prefer something like office=coworking, which is used

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=coworking#values

(the amenity tag shoudn't be used imho)


 Sincerely,

 Severin


Regards,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] Pre-proposal: Newsagent / Kiosk / Tobacco / TIcket shop

2013-11-03 Thread sabas88
2013/11/3 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com


 2013/11/3 Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl

 Do these kind of shops also exist in other countries, and how are they
 referred to? Which of the products that I listed do they sell?



 There is surely some overlap between countries, but there are also country
 specific specialties. A shop which sells this kind of stuff in Germany
 could also be a petrol station. In Italy a shop=tobacco might also sell
 salt (traditionally salt was a state monopoly), but won't sell books
 generally. Bus tickets will mostly be sold, concert tickets I'm not sure,
 but they will also do some kind of banking operations (you can pay e.g.
 your rent or your electricity bill there). As for postal stamps I wouldn't
 count on them, they might have some of the most used fractions, but very
 often they'd say they've run out. They also won't sell magazines or
 newspapers by default, but there are some (combined shops) that do. Often
 they are inside a bar and will therefor sell coffee, liquors, sandwiches,
 etc. Besides from these tobacco - bars a tobacco shop won't offer drinks.

 Lotto is a different issue, in Germany the common couple is a newspaper
 agent offering wasting your money on lottery.

 Given that already inside a certain country there are huge differences
 between these kind of shops. I'd think it is almost impossible to do it
 on an international level. E.g. some shop=tobacco are specialized in
 tobacco and offer a huge selection of cigars, pipes and pipe tobacco,
 cigarette rolling tobacco etc., while others not even offer rolling tobacco
 but only a small selection of cigarettes and maybe one or two common cigar
 types.

 I won't deduct from the shop type what exactly is the offering, either we
 had to make specific subtypes (e.g. tobacco bar, tobacco + newspapers, even
 tobacco and pastry/bread) or express this with additional attributes in the
 form of sell:tobacco=yes, sell:icecream=yes, lotto=yes (or sells for
 grammatical reasons, but the sell:* form seems more common currently).

 In conclusion to your original question I'd say that this is not one kind
 of shop, but there are different kind of shops in different countries,
 offering overlapping goods and services.


I'm adding some things here..
We could use vending=* as for vending machines.

I'm mapping as kiosk when there's more items from the list,
shop=tobacco when it's a proper tabacchino or tabaccaio (outside has a
black and white sign with the reference code from the Italian Monopoli),
shop=newsagent when sells exclusively newspapers and magazines or it's a
standalone kiosk with mostly newspapers
for tickets I'd like something like office=tickets (so we'll catch also the
place vending tickets outside a museum).

In Italy through lotto (only the most recent machines) you could pay bills,
taxes and other services.


 cheers,
 Martin

 Bye,
Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] tourism=guest_house or tourism=bed_and_breakfast ?

2013-10-17 Thread sabas88
2013/10/17 Pieren pier...@gmail.com

 Could someone explain the difference between tourism=guest_house and
 tourism=bed_and_breakfast ?
 Both are suggested here:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dguest_house
 but only guest_house is really documented in the wiki.

 In taginfo, we find 527 tourism=bed_and_breakfast and 32382
 tourism=guest_house (accidentally, taginfo says Guest house and
 BedBreakfast for tourism=guest_house)

 I'm asking because in France we do have a diffence when guests are in
 an independent building (gîte [1]), usually for at least a week or a
 week-end, or just special bedrooms (bedbreakfast) as guests in
 private homes. So, I'm looking if we could reuse the two existing tags
 or if I should create a sub-tag like tourism=guest_house +
 guest_house=bed_and_breakfast or
 guest_house=whatever_in_an_independent_building


We discussed once on #osm-talk when I asked more or less the same
question...
The distinction between bb and guest house is related to the law in your
country, generally bb need to have max x rooms for guests, otherwise they
are guest houses (I try to use guest_house now also when the name is Bed 
Breakfast Mickey Mouse but the legal status defines it as guest_house)



 Pieren


Regards,
Stefano


 [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%AEte

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Re: [Tagging] Ferry frequency

2013-10-04 Thread sabas88
Duration is also important and currently used by OSRM (although not on
relations yet), like http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/176323421

Cheers,
Stefano
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[Tagging] Intermodal transport

2013-04-09 Thread sabas88
Hello,
I would like to start a discussion related to intermodal transport and its
facilities, and I drafted a page[0] with some links in it.

A tagging system should be proposed also considering the maritime tagging
(OpenSeaMap), or extending it to deal with inland facilities.
As an example, I saw harbour:LOCODE[1] key, but I preferred to use a (imho
more general) ref:LOCODE[2], as the older discussion didn't came to
results. See [3]

Regards,
Stefano

[0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Intermodal_Terminal
[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:harbour:LOCODE
[2] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ref%3ALOCODE
[3] http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openseamap.maps/261
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[Tagging] Luncheon Vouchers

2013-03-05 Thread sabas88
Hello,
I wanted to add information on some restaurants / bars to indicate if they
accept luncheon vouchers (meal vouchers), but I didn't find anything.

These vouchers are given by work employers to be used for lunch payments.
I was looking at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Payment which I think
it's the best namespace to use, I was wondering how to extend it.
For info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal_voucher

Needs to be described:
- if accepted paper ticket or/and electronic ticket
- what kind of voucher is accepted (luncheon voucher, ticket restaurant):
usually only some brands are accepted.

Regards,
Stefano
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Re: [Tagging] water parks and swimming pools

2013-01-15 Thread sabas88
There's also an attraction=water_slide[0], it isn't rendered in the current
stylesheet but it's the correct tag to use :)

I'm respondible for some swimming pools multipolygons, the explaination is
that in water parks there are these big water areas in which you can walk
or swim, but there are some 'islands' inside.
Here's an example http://osm.org/go/xT3TtKM0f--

Cheers,
Stefano

[0]http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:attraction
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Re: [Tagging] Ferry lines, ways or relations?

2012-09-05 Thread sabas88
This discussion already took place some months ago..
Since then I saw a lot of changes after I edited initially some Italian
lines..

2012/9/5 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com

 I opened an issue on OSRM-s Github page:

 https://github.com/DennisOSRM/Project-OSRM/issues/402


https://github.com/DennisOSRM/Project-OSRM/issues/291




 Janko


Cheers,
Stefano

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Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - natural=bare_rock

2012-07-02 Thread sabas88
2012/7/2 Johan Jönsson joha...@goteborg.cc

 This is an old proposal that have been discussed before. It seem to be in
 use
 according to tag watch, so I have been urged to make this official.

 There are also similar tags in use and others proposed but that doesn´t
 mean
 this one could be approved.

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/bare_rock



There are some proposals, it's not a very clear situation (bare_rock, rock,
bedrock), no way to tag the typology of the rock..
I tagged bare_rock both with natural and landcover key to be sure...

I'd opt for landcover system.

Regards,
Stefano


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[Tagging] Wholesale, key without proposal?

2012-06-29 Thread sabas88
Hi,
I saw this [0] page which describes a feature with ~30 uses, created on
June 20th.
Some months ago, I made this[1] proposal for a new shop value, which has
now 80 occurrences.

Should I mark one of the two pages in some way?
What's the correct one?

Regards,
Stefano

[0]http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wholesale
[1]http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/cash_and_carry
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[Tagging] Ferry routes, what's the correct approach?

2012-06-03 Thread sabas88
Hi,
I started discussing in the local list about the approach in tagging ferry
routes.
The wiki page [0] seems a little bit unclear, leaving two approaches:
-normal way between harbours
-relation like a normal road.

I tried to follow the relation approach like I saw in other seas, but I
cannot understand why routing on these ferries is so difficult.
For instance in some cases the router suggest to change ferry in the middle
of the sea, or suggest a route which minimises the sea crossing: between
two harbours with a direct line, it goes through land till it find another
route.

So, my question is: it's fault of the tagging or the routing? What's the
correct way of tagging?

Regards,
Stefano


[0]http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:route%3Dferry
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Re: [Tagging] Ferry routes, what's the correct approach?

2012-06-03 Thread sabas88
2012/6/3 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk

 [cut]
 Dover-Calais does seem to work well, you may get some ideas there.

 http://map.project-osrm.org/xR


Thanks, seems similar to how I made the routes in Genoa, we'll see at the
next OSRM update how it behaves...
I don't understand why way 14271003 (the main route) isn't splitted at node
136942316, the backwards bit is only from that node to the pier, isn't it?


 Phil





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[Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - Soccer variants

2012-05-31 Thread sabas88
Hi all,
I made a proposal for a new soccer=* tag to describe which variant is
played on a field. Currently there isn't a way to tell if a soccer field is
regular-sized (on which it's played the regular soccer) or it's a simple
field traced in a church backyard for example.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Soccer

Regards,
Stefano
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Re: [Tagging] Count of urinals

2012-05-26 Thread sabas88
2012/5/26 Shu Higashi s_hig...@mua.biglobe.ne.jp

 Hi,

 I was asked by a woman if she can map the count of urinals (or
 something other appropriate name in english?) in a toilet.
 Because it is very important for women to count their waiting time.
 So I'd like to propose a tag to count the urials.

 For example:
 amenity=toilets
 urinals:female=4

 May I add this combination to the wiki page?
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Toilets



I see that the keys (f.e. male/female) are used only for toilets..
Can we discuss about transformation in something with namespaces like
toilet:* for those keys?
I see also this extension[0].
If you want to start tagging count we could think something like
toilet:seated:count=*
and so on...
To distinguish between man and woman
toilet:male:seated:count=* is good?



 Though it's dificult for men to map :)

 Shu Higashi


Stefano

[0]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity%3Dtoilets#By_type_.28squat_vs._seated.3B_urinals.3B_flushing_mechanism.29


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Re: [Tagging] Geology and landcover - Building an extension

2012-05-23 Thread sabas88
2012/5/23 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com

 2012/5/23 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com:
  What about building a proposal to extend landcover=* tag to meet FAO's
  system?


 I think if you wanted to implement the FAO system you would need more
 than one additional tag, so I suggest to make up a whole new proposal
 to do this. Maybe you should also check if the FAO system is available
 (copyright/licensing). Besides these problems I am in favour of the
 FAO system, it seems well thought out.


Regarding the software, here [0] states the non-commercial clause.
Should this proposal require prior authorization by FAO offices?

[0]http://www.fao.org/docrep/008/y7220e/y7220e00.htm


 cheers,
 Martin

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Re: [Tagging] sidewalks and tagging for the renderer

2012-04-10 Thread sabas88
2012/4/10 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com

 I am coming back to a topic we had some time ago: sidewalks.

 According to this page
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:footway%3Dsidewalk

 sidewalks should be tagged with
 highway=footway
 footway=sidewalk

 While I agree that for complex situations it is helpful to have
 dedicated geometry in OSM, I fail to understand why this should be
 tagged highway=*. Usually a distinct highway should be drawn only in
 the case of a separated carriageway.


You can add only a tag on the existing highway.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:sidewalk

cheers,
 Martin


Stefano


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Re: [Tagging] gym as an amenity value

2012-03-09 Thread sabas88
Il giorno 10/mar/2012 06:49, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us ha
scritto:

  To me fitness centers are more related to health than leisure.
 I'd prefer to use the tag amenity instead.

 Thoughts?

I feel like I'm in prison when I go to the gym[0]…


 Clifford

Stefano

[0] wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Prison



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Re: [Tagging] Tag approval process or its absence (was: Voting for Relation type=waterway)

2012-02-21 Thread sabas88
2012/2/21 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org


 I don't think that a tagging style that works best in Europe will
 automatically also be the one that works best in South America. Any attempt
 to force everyone to use the same style will automatically make the map
 *less* good in some places. I think that it is one of the great strengths
 of OSM that we can allow people to map what is good for them locally, and
 we should not throw that away just because some programmer somewhere finds
 it easier to roll out his iPhone app if tags are synchronized the world
 over!

 And if there's three or four different tagging schemes for the same thing
in the same country? Changing in quantity, genre or spelling for instance.



 Bye
 Frederik

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Re: [Tagging] tagging of ele / elevation data e.g. in the context of towers

2012-02-20 Thread sabas88
2012/2/20 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com

 On the German ML we are currently discussing how to applicate ele to
 towers (and similar situations). There is consensus that the key
 height is describing the height of the structure from the ground to
 the top. There is also consensus to tag elevation data in WGS84 (so
 that numbers in local systems would typically have to be converted
 before you can enter them).

 There are 2 alternatives:

 a) ele is the elevation of the ground around/below the tower (in the
 case of a mountain summit it would be the elevation of the mountain,
 not the tower).

 +1
I believe ele=* should be applied only to the terrain, and height would
be the physical distance between the point at ele=* elevation and the one
at ele+height elevation.

b) ele is the elevation of the highest point at the tagged spot, i.e.
 the top of the tower

 -1


 Comments welcome. The idea is to clarify this aspect on the wiki page
 for the key ele.


For istance if there would ever be a DEM compatible with OSM licenses, I
think it would be imported in ele=* tags.


 cheers,
 Martin

 cheers,
Stefano.

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Re: [Tagging] Tag approval process or its absence (was: Voting for Relation type=waterway)

2012-02-20 Thread sabas88
That's some kind of consideration, like the one I proposed some time ago,
about building a clean tagging scheme, but has led to a discussion about
another topic and died.
My +1 will always go to cleaning.

Cheers,
Stefano
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Re: [Tagging] When should a name:* translation be used?

2012-01-30 Thread sabas88
2012/1/30 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com



 It is quite frequent that the names of the more famous places get
 translated into different languages. I don't speak Vietnamese, but
 this looks like nothing particularily strange to me. If you need a
 reason to keep it: I guess the Vietnamese speaking people will find it
 useful ;-)


 The question is how far we go. Should every Main Street be translated into
 hundreds of languages?


Every Main St is a famous road? :)

Regarding roads I couldn't say many examples of roads with a translated
name (of course a literal translation is possible but it's not very useful
if that translation isn't established), perhaps the Champs Elysèes in Paris.
It's more common for other toponyms like cities (Genova/Genes/Genoa/Genua
for instance).
And if I guessed correctly one could see the local name and the translated
name on the map (an Italian user built a map in his regional language based
on this idea).

Stefano

PS I didn't see a translation in italian for Orange County, perhaps
vietnamese people refer to the county with a translated name :)
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Re: [Tagging] Public airport multipolygon?

2012-01-30 Thread sabas88
2012/1/30 Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com


 I guess you can't, at least not now. That's one issue with the
 free-form tagging system we use. Sooner or later we'll have to develop
 a process to deprecate tags, change tags, etc. Perhaps we should start
 a separate thread and discuss how this process could work.


+1
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Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Mapping guidelines

2012-01-17 Thread sabas88
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/highway
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Re: [Tagging] Health and other stories

2012-01-11 Thread sabas88
2012/1/11 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org


 I find it a bit harsh that you complain about amenity=dentist when others
 languish in an amenity=prison.


I laughed hard, I didn't noticed it :D

 2012/1/11 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com


 nobody stops you from using other keys then amenity, some people
 already do it, look here:

 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/healthcare#values
 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/health_facility%3Atype#values
 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/healthcare%3Aspeciality#values


Yes Martin, they are using either approved but contested proposals or user
defined values.
My idea was to discuss a possible project made of different proposal
covering each its area (health, education,...) which would give a more
rational set of keys to use :) I know only few tags and for others I rely
upon Josm menu and on wiki. Take the examples of dentist and prison, they
aren't pleasant (http://www.wordreference.com/definition/amenity) :)

This work would be also helpful for whom develop applications (example:
Josm, Vespucci, Osmtracker, Maperitive) struggling with different dialects
of tagging :)

Cheers,
Stefano
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Re: [Tagging] Health and other stories

2012-01-11 Thread sabas88
2012/1/11 Michael Krämer ohr...@googlemail.com

 To be honest I haven't really thought about the
 difference between until this thread came up...


That's a problem for various non-native speakers (me included eheh)

This should be an opportunity to make some changes in syntax and semantics
[1] of OSM.

We should start a wiki entry to organize the ideas in a collaborative
Project (The Plan?) which will become the reccomendation from the final
approval on and a suggestion to migrate existing data :) (the automation
should be leaved to whom messes with [local] data)

My proposal:
-main page: description, aim, index and discussion for general ideas;
-subpages: one for each category or area of interest (primary features [2]
gives a good approximation of what I mean)

Also, this will promote also thinking on how would be simplified tagging
particular features (comes in mind also the cultural/heritage theme, from
archaeology to museums, a main key culture=*?).

Discussion should be focused also on the best word to use, as John pointed
out, and here the main work should be made by native speakers :)

Stefano

[1]http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Semantics
[2]http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features
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Re: [Tagging] Amenity parking

2012-01-11 Thread sabas88
2012/1/11 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com

 I tag all parking spaces as amenity=parking, even though you have to
 rent a place by the month. I'm guessing this is wrong? But this is how
 most people do it.


I'd like a subkey for the landuse=road :P
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[Tagging] Health and other stories

2012-01-10 Thread sabas88
Hi list,
I want to suggest a topic of discussion not often considered: planning a
more rational tagging system to be applied onto the existing data and for
the future.
(OK, it's flame time! :D)

For instance the discussion could start with a simple case: healthcare.
Now the health facilities are tagged in amenity (when I go to the dentist
I'm not happy as I would be in a bar!), but (in my dream world :) ) they
should deserve a seperate key: I found two proposals, one contested [1] and
one in RFC status [2] (but I somewhat dislike it at a first glance).

Same discussion could be started on education, culture and so on.
Perhaps the amenity key is abused as a POI collector, but in my humble
opinion, there should be more categories (or, if you like, subcategories as
amenity=health, health=* but it's less effective).

(Un)Occupy the Amenity key!

Regards,
Stefano

PS This email seems ironic, but I would seriously like to promote
discussion on this topic.

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Healthcare
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Healthcare_2.0
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Re: [Tagging] additional barrier type?

2011-11-30 Thread sabas88
2011/12/1 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net

 while out mapping today, i encountered a barrier type that doesn't have a
 suitable
 tag in the wiki:

 barrier=guardrail

 in the specific case, a road leading to an abandoned bridge has had a
 guardrail
 barrier placed across the road to keep vehicular traffic from approaching
 the
 bridge.

 this tag would be suitable for both nodes (single points on ways where
 they are
 blocked) and ways. unless there's a british term for the same thing that's
 preferable
 i'm inclined to just add it.

 thoughts?
   richard


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Hi,
there's already in this approved proposal
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types

Stefano
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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - shop=cash_and_carry

2011-09-10 Thread sabas88
Hi there,
I made a proposal for a cash and carry shop tag.
Cash and carry are big wholesale dealers (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_and_carry_%28wholesale%29)
You can find the proposal page here
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/shop%3Dcash_and_carry

Stefano
sarchittuorg
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