Re: [Tagging] Criticism of PTv2
On 10/03/2020 20:52, Phake Nick wrote: In the sense of bus, sidewalk could be a platform because they are raised from the driving road surface. You can google "bus platform" and see many example of the word being used in real world. But that's not how it was implemented in the PT documentation. In fact for nodes it specifically mentions "locations where there is no physical infrastructure" DaveF ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Criticism of PTv2
On 2020-03-11 Wed 06:03, Alan Mackie wrote: > > > On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 20:54, Phake Nick wrote: > >> On 2020-03-10 Tue 19:47, Dave F via Tagging >> wrote: >> >>> > A platform is a platform, a perfectly flat bit of sidewalk isn't. >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> DaveF >>> >> >> In the sense of bus, sidewalk could be a platform because they are raised >> from the driving road surface. You can google "bus platform" and see many >> example of the word being used in real world. >> >>> > I'll buy into that for the ones with the special raised kerb that some > buses can get more or less level to, and for specially constructed ones in > bus stations, but not for an unmodified area. I suspect in many regions > it's barely higher than the road camber and despite the difficulty for > wheelchairs etc, wouldn't normally be seen as "raised" by your hypothetical > "average person". > > For me that Google search returns images that tend towards the "more > heavily modified" end of the spectrum, but who knows what sort of > personalisation they're running. > > -Alan > I don't think a term must be familiar by general public to be used in OSM, people who know what it is understand the meaning of the term should already be sufficient. > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Criticism of PTv2
On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 20:54, Phake Nick wrote: > On 2020-03-10 Tue 19:47, Dave F via Tagging > wrote: > >> > A platform is a platform, a perfectly flat bit of sidewalk isn't. >> >> +1 >> >> DaveF >> > > In the sense of bus, sidewalk could be a platform because they are raised > from the driving road surface. You can google "bus platform" and see many > example of the word being used in real world. > >> I'll buy into that for the ones with the special raised kerb that some buses can get more or less level to, and for specially constructed ones in bus stations, but not for an unmodified area. I suspect in many regions it's barely higher than the road camber and despite the difficulty for wheelchairs etc, wouldn't normally be seen as "raised" by your hypothetical "average person". For me that Google search returns images that tend towards the "more heavily modified" end of the spectrum, but who knows what sort of personalisation they're running. -Alan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Criticism of PTv2
On 2020-03-10 Tue 19:47, Dave F via Tagging wrote: > On 09/03/2020 21:00, Alan Mackie wrote: > > > > So it's better to label them all as platforms? I can't see any raised > area > > in a typical bus stop:... > > > > > > Why would we tag it as if it looks like this?... > > This is just one example of poor concepts implemented in PTv2. We should > be mapping *physical*, not imaginary objects. They couldn't even come up > with an original tag so hijacked an existing one, while completely > disregarding it's dictionary meaning. > > A platform is a platform, a perfectly flat bit of sidewalk isn't. > > +1 > > DaveF > In the sense of bus, sidewalk could be a platform because they are raised from the driving road surface. You can google "bus platform" and see many example of the word being used in real world. > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Criticism of PTv2
On 09/03/2020 21:00, Alan Mackie wrote: So it's better to label them all as platforms? I can't see any raised area in a typical bus stop:... Why would we tag it as if it looks like this?... This is just one example of poor concepts implemented in PTv2. We should be mapping *physical*, not imaginary objects. They couldn't even come up with an original tag so hijacked an existing one, while completely disregarding it's dictionary meaning. A platform is a platform, a perfectly flat bit of sidewalk isn't. +1 DaveF ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Criticism of PTv2 (was: Feature Proposal - RFC - Public Transport v3)
On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 11:30, John Doe wrote: > > This is quite off-topic, but I can't bear to read more completely > unfounded criticism of PTv2. > > I hereby declare that I find the old tags to be a complete abomination (Is > it on the way? Is it beside the way? Is it a stop, a platform, a halt, a > station? Why is a platform or a bus stop a railway or a highway?), and PTv2 > tags to be very consistent and comprehensible in comparison. Indeed, this > thread has motivated me to stop using legacy tags entirely - to hell with > Carto and other legacy consumers. > So it's better to label them all as platforms? I can't see any raised area in a typical bus stop: https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=53.470542=-2.23758900071=17=sHRXz6nnNKdV1u_AFXAjJw=OpenStreetMap=photo Why would we tag it as if it looks like this? https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=53.48198622803868=-2.2391616517737676=17=OpenStreetMap=-yZ4kkeVica0Kcmnd-TotA=photo The section for buses on the main public transport page says: "If there is no real platform ... the location of the bus stop sign ... gets ... public_transport=platform. " I.E. If there is no platform, make one up. How is that more logical than highway=bus_stop for "there is a bus stop here"? As for 'why is a bus stop a highway' do you also suggest we scrap the tagging for traffic lights, road signs, crosswalks etc. etc? If tram stops (as described on the wiki) are accessible from both sides and > it makes sense to put them on the way, then PTv2 is very much justified in > creating an umbrella tag for stops which are placed on the way. I don't > understand why the critics of PTv2 seem to think stop positions are such a > big deal - they are optional! > They are largely imaginary for most types of transport. Most public transport experiences centre around where the people stand not when the driver slams on the brakes. > Platforms are where passengers wait. > Stations are places with many platforms. > Stop positions are where vehicles stop - an optional alternative to using > platforms, included for backward-compatibility. > And the feature is not confounded with the vehicle that serves it, nor the > infrastructure provided. A platform is a platform regardless of shelter, > bench, or tactile paving. > A platform is a platform, a perfectly flat bit of sidewalk isn't. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
