Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 4:52 AM Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) < robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 21:33, Mike Thompson wrote: > > In specifying access constraints for the roads it manages, the US Forest > service makes a distinction between ATVs, highway vehicles, and "OHVs > > 50"." > > The first two categories correspond to the tags motorcar=* and atv=* I > think, but I have not been able to find an existing tag that corresponds to > "OHVs > 50"." There is an ohv=* tag, but it seems to apply to all OHVs > regardless of width as well as motorcycles. > > Have you looked at conditional access restrictions: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions ? > > If ohv=* is understood as an access tag (though it doesn't appear at > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access ), then you could e.g. > do something like ohv = no + ohv:conditional = yes @ (width > 50") to > allow OHVs only if they are wider than 50". > A variation on that might work: if OHV > 50" is not allowed => ohv = yes + ohv:conditional = no @ (width > 50") ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:03 PM brad wrote: > For your example, I would just tag it as motor_vehicle=yes.From what > I've seen, If OHV's >50" are legal, pretty much any motor vehicle is > legal. > Actually, I think I have found some examples in the MVUM (motor vehicle use map) file from the USFS where that might not be the case. Mike ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
For your example, I would just tag it as motor_vehicle=yes. From what I've seen, If OHV's >50" are legal, pretty much any motor vehicle is legal. On 9/1/20 2:30 PM, Mike Thompson wrote: In specifying access constraints for the roads it manages, the US Forest service makes a distinction between ATVs, highway vehicles, and "OHVs > 50"." The first two categories correspond to the tags motorcar=* and atv=* I think, but I have not been able to find an existing tag that corresponds to "OHVs > 50"." There is an ohv=* tag, but it seems to apply to all OHVs regardless of width as well as motorcycles. What do you recommend? Mike ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 21:33, Mike Thompson wrote: > In specifying access constraints for the roads it manages, the US Forest > service makes a distinction between ATVs, highway vehicles, and "OHVs > 50"." > The first two categories correspond to the tags motorcar=* and atv=* I think, > but I have not been able to find an existing tag that corresponds to "OHVs > > 50"." There is an ohv=* tag, but it seems to apply to all OHVs regardless of > width as well as motorcycles. Have you looked at conditional access restrictions: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions ? If ohv=* is understood as an access tag (though it doesn't appear at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access ), then you could e.g. do something like ohv = no + ohv:conditional = yes @ (width > 50") to allow OHVs only if they are wider than 50". -- Robert Whittaker ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 3:46 PM Kevin Broderick
wrote:
> More likely than prohibiting bikes, the USFS could allow
> non-street-registered OHVs over 50" on a trail, but keep it closed to
> normal street-registered vehicles;
>
Not sure if I have ever seen that, but we would still need a way of
expressing that.
> in some states, there may also be implications regarding the requirement
> to have the vehicle registered as an OHV, regardless of whether or not it
> has a street plate.
>
Correct, you may have to have a "tag" for your OHV, even if you don't have
a license for it (at least not the type you get for your regular highway
legal vehicle). In fact, many of these vehicles cannot be licensed for
highway use as the modifications that have been done to them render them
non highway legal.
> I'm not sure that we need a separate access tag, though: is there any case
> where the USFS (or another land manager) allows only those OHVs over 50"?
>
I am not sure. I have seen cases where they only allow motorcycles, only
allow motorcycles and ATVs (less than 50 inches), only allow legal licensed
highway vehicles, and only allow legal licensed highway vehicles and
motorcycles ("no ATVs").
> In most cases, I think either maxwidth= or atv:maxwidth= would be
> appropriate, when the question is a max-width of 50", no?
>
Maybe. So under this system, if the FS says ATV=yes, OHV_gt_50in=no, in
OSM we would tag atv=yes, maxwidth=1.27 (I think that is the metric
equivalent).
Mike
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Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 3:28 PM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 1. Sep 2020, at 22:33, Mike Thompson wrote: > > > > OHVs > 50 > > > is there also an upper limit? No legal upper limit that I am aware of. In practicality, the wider (and longer) a vehicle is, the more difficult it is to use it to travel on 4wd roads. There is also the practical limitation that these things have to be trailered to the area where they are going to be used since they are not highway legal, and there are limits to the width of a trailer you can have on public highways. 50” are 127 cm, so that’s to say wider than a motorcycle? > Yes. And, by the FS' classification, wider than an "ATV" > Is the question whether “off highway vehicle” would merit its own subclass > for access? > ATVs, and motorcycles that are not licensed for highway use are "off highway vehicles" too according to the FS (if I am understanding the regulations correctly). So my question is, is there an existing tag, or combination of tags, that would represent this information? If not, what would be an appropriate new tag? Mike > > Cheers Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
More likely than prohibiting bikes, the USFS could allow non-street-registered OHVs over 50" on a trail, but keep it closed to normal street-registered vehicles; in some states, there may also be implications regarding the requirement to have the vehicle registered as an OHV, regardless of whether or not it has a street plate. I'm not sure that we need a separate access tag, though: is there any case where the USFS (or another land manager) allows only those OHVs over 50"? In most cases, I think either maxwidth= or atv:maxwidth= would be appropriate, when the question is a max-width of 50", no? On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:03 PM Mike Thompson wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 2:47 PM John Willis via Tagging < > tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > >> I would say that is a “motor_vehecle” >> >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:motor_vehicle >> > Sure, it is a motor_vehicle, but it is just a subset of motor vehicles, so > I don't think that tag would be appropriate. For example it is possible > that the FS would say that a given road is open to OHVs >50", but not > motorcycles, but the tag motor_vehicle=yes implies motorcycle=yes. > > Mike > >> >> ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Kevin Broderick k...@kevinbroderick.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
sent from a phone > On 1. Sep 2020, at 22:33, Mike Thompson wrote: > > OHVs > 50 is there also an upper limit? 50” are 127 cm, so that’s to say wider than a motorcycle? Is the question whether “off highway vehicle” would merit its own subclass for access? Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 2:47 PM John Willis via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > I would say that is a “motor_vehecle” > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:motor_vehicle > Sure, it is a motor_vehicle, but it is just a subset of motor vehicles, so I don't think that tag would be appropriate. For example it is possible that the FS would say that a given road is open to OHVs >50", but not motorcycles, but the tag motor_vehicle=yes implies motorcycle=yes. Mike > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
I would say that is a “motor_vehecle” https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:motor_vehicle Javbw > On Sep 2, 2020, at 5:33 AM, Mike Thompson wrote: > > > > In specifying access constraints for the roads it manages, the US Forest > service makes a distinction between ATVs, highway vehicles, and "OHVs > 50"." > The first two categories correspond to the tags motorcar=* and atv=* I think, > but I have not been able to find an existing tag that corresponds to "OHVs > > 50"." There is an ohv=* tag, but it seems to apply to all OHVs regardless of > width as well as motorcycles. > > What do you recommend? > > Mike > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] OHV greater than 50 inches (wide)
In specifying access constraints for the roads it manages, the US Forest service makes a distinction between ATVs, highway vehicles, and "OHVs > 50"." The first two categories correspond to the tags motorcar=* and atv=* I think, but I have not been able to find an existing tag that corresponds to "OHVs > 50"." There is an ohv=* tag, but it seems to apply to all OHVs regardless of width as well as motorcycles. What do you recommend? Mike ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
