Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

is that an empty value means "use the default", which can only make sense in special cases like this. Gerd *Von:* Colin Smale <colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 20. Januar 2016 08:23 *An:* Tag discussion, strategy and r

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

: three strings: "80" , "","" >>> >>> The value "|80|" also gives three strings: "","80","" >>> >>> Another point is that an empty value means "use the default", which >can >&g

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

Von: Colin Smale <colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. Januar 2016 10:58 An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools; Tijmen Stam Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki At present the string "none" is

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

) is parsed by splitting it into separate > strings at each pipe symbol. > > Result: three strings: "80" , "","" > > The value "|80|" also gives three strings: "","80","" > > Another point is that an empty v

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On Wed, Mike N wrote: > On 1/20/2016 3:39 PM, Dominic Coletti wrote: >> I see 808,000 uses of name_1 and 65,000 of name_2. > Many of these are from the US TIGER import, and must not be automatically > removed. They would go into alt_name , etc based on local knowledge. I believe this is a good

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

Taped "send" to early, here's the rest of my email: On 23 January 2016 15:14:22 GMT+00:00, "Lauri Kytömaa" wrote: >I believe this is a good point to make, the origin for many of those >tags. >While the number of uses is reason to keep them as-is, if a major slice >of them

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 23 January 2016 15:14:22 GMT+00:00, "Lauri Kytömaa" wrote: >I believe this is a good point to make, the origin for many of those >tags. >While the number of uses is reason to keep them as-is, if a major slice >of them comes from an import, the ratio isn't a good reason

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

Thanks for your comments Martin! On 2016-01-21 12:21, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2016-01-21 11:03 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale : > >> A few candidates I can think of for incorporation in to the OSM (meta)model: >> >> * date/time format > > +1, the opening_hours syntax is

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

2016-01-21 11:03 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale : > A few candidates I can think of for incorporation in to the OSM > (meta)model: > > * date/time format > +1, the opening_hours syntax is IMHO the defacto standard, it is also used in other context, e.g. service_times or conditional

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

It's a great shame that OSM seems incapable of moving its information model forwards. There have been so many discussions about the need for a way of representing multi-valued attributes (as occur in real life) within the OSM framework, and yet it keeps coming back again and again. Instead of

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 20/01/2016 09:01, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Power users might switch on the data layer on osm.org and look at the data directly I hardly describe the data layer as 'direct' viewing. It offers the same information, in the same format, as looking at a node/way

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 19/01/2016, Andy Townsend wrote: > It's not used by anyone as far as I can see: > > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%3B%3B > > (unless taginfo is doing some special filtering) http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%3B (a single ";") doesn't find any value

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

I see 808,000 uses of name_1 and 65,000 of name_2. On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:07 AM moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > On 19/01/2016, Andy Townsend wrote: > > It's not used by anyone as far as I can see: > > > > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%3B%3B >

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

I just want to mention again: this proposal is about the wiki, that name_1 and alt_name_1 should not be suggested there for good tagging. Its not about the existing data in OSM. On 20.01.2016 23:35, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > On 20/01/2016, Mike N wrote: >> On 1/20/2016 3:39 PM,

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 20/01/2016, Mike N wrote: > On 1/20/2016 3:39 PM, Dominic Coletti wrote: >> I see 808,000 uses of name_1 and 65,000 of name_2. And 609,505 alt_name and 6,013 alt_name_1. These approximate figues have already been mentioned in this thread. Does Anybody have stats on how many

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

* Mike N [160120 21:47]: > On 1/20/2016 3:39 PM, Dominic Coletti wrote: >> I see 808,000 uses of name_1 and 65,000 of name_2. > Many of these are from the US TIGER import, and must not be > automatically removed. They would go into alt_name , etc based on local > knowledge.

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

2016-01-20 8:30 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale : > Yes I'm sure... Notice I put the word "direct" in there. No "end user" of > the data will use the data directly, there is always a presentation layer > in the middle, which formats up numbers and dates, converts units, > localises

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 20.01.2016 08:30, Colin Smale wrote: > If the "semicolon > syntax" defines a "list of values", shouldn't stuff remove an empty > value from the list (i.e. replace ;; with ; ) and then remove the whole > tag if the list is empty? no, because in this context (semicolons) the ;; should't be

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

however, everything depends on the key definition, in opening_hours for example you use || as "or". Thats ok because that key does not expect parameters, lane=* does On 20.01.2016 15:05, Hakuch wrote: > On 20.01.2016 08:30, Colin Smale wrote: >> If the "semicolon >> syntax" defines a "list of

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

ok, let not call it unordered, but it is just a list without positions. If you are using | pipes, you have specific positions. And there, an empty value is also a value/information. But if you have a list like you should do with ; an empty value would be nothing, there wont be any information that

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 19.01.2016 19:40, Andy Townsend wrote: > On 19/01/2016 18:02, Hakuch wrote: >> It might not be used by that much developers, > > It's not used by anyone as far as I can see: > > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%3B%3B > > (unless taginfo is doing some special filtering) > it seems

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 10.01.2016 22:29, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > Actually to my human eyes, both semicolons and suffixes are equally > ugly (but pragmatic). It's for processing that suffixes are supperior: > * Spliting by semicolons (no regexp needed :p) is easy but naive, > because semicolons are sometimes part

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 19/01/2016 18:02, Hakuch wrote: On 10.01.2016 22:29, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: Actually to my human eyes, both semicolons and suffixes are equally ugly (but pragmatic). It's for processing that suffixes are supperior: * Spliting by semicolons (no regexp needed :p) is easy but naive, because

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

Who says the lists using a semicolon are by definition unordered? A road with multiple ref's might have ref=A1;A2 where A1 is listed first on the signs. A shop with multiple categories (I know this is subject to some discussion) might have shop=a;b;c where shop=a is its primary categorisation. A

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

So how do you indicate a missing/empty value in the middle of the list? Does "a;;b" mean a single value of "a;b" or does it mean three values "a", "" and "b"? The "lanes" tag family uses a different delimiter ("|"), sometimes together with a semicolon to make a kind of 2-d array. A double pipe

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 19.01.2016 19:25, Colin Smale wrote: > So how do you indicate a missing/empty value in the middle of the list? > Does "a;;b" mean a single value of "a;b" or does it mean three values > "a", "" and "b"? > > The "lanes" tag family uses a different delimiter ("|"), sometimes > together with a

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

sent from a phone > Am 19.01.2016 um 20:02 schrieb Colin Smale : > > Tags and values are for machine processing, not for direct human consumption; are you sure? Why are they human readable then, using actual words? Wouldn't it be more efficient to use binary code?

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

Colin Smale wrote > The "lanes" tag family uses a different delimiter ("|"), sometimes > together with a semicolon to make a kind of 2-d array. A double pipe > ("||") indicates a missing value there. Wouldn't it be nice if we were > consistent? That is new to me. My understanding of a double

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

I meant that there is a value missing "between the pipes", which at a slightly higher semantic level can mean "use the default". A definition which varies according to position doesn't feel well-formed to me. //colin On 2016-01-20 08:10, Gerd Petermann wrote: > Colin Smale wrote > >> The

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

Yes I'm sure... Notice I put the word "direct" in there. No "end user" of the data will use the data directly, there is always a presentation layer in the middle, which formats up numbers and dates, converts units, localises key words, etc etc. That's where the "semicolon syntax" and the "pipe

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

woch, 20. Januar 2016 08:23 An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki I meant that there is a value missing "between the pipes", which at a slightly higher semantic level can mean "use the default". A

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

On 9 January 2016 at 18:50, Hakuch wrote: > I propose, to remove the tagging of name_1 and alt_name_1 from the wiki. I disagree. > **better use diverse name-tags** Diverse name tags are a good thing when there is some semantic difference between names, but often enough

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

> Op 9 jan. 2016, om 19:50 heeft Hakuch het volgende > geschreven: > > I propose, to remove the tagging of name_1 and alt_name_1 from the wiki. I agree. Marc. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

sent from a phone > Am 09.01.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Hakuch : > > I propose, to remove the tagging of name_1 and alt_name_1 from the wiki. I agree, also with the change of iD to stop making indexed tags like this. cheers Martin

[Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

I propose, to remove the tagging of name_1 and alt_name_1 from the wiki. Most mappers reject tagging with _x suffixes and it makes no sense to have them in the wiki as a scheme for good mapping. [I also started a discussion in the wiki:

Re: [Tagging] Removing name_1 and alt_name_1 from Wiki

I agree too, FWIW. Polyglot 2016-01-09 23:25 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout : > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:32 AM, Marc Zoutendijk > wrote: > >> > I propose, to remove the tagging of name_1 and alt_name_1 from the wiki. >> > > Agree > > > -- > Dave