Re: [Tagging] Representing "altimetric quotas" in OSM

2017-01-18 Thread Warin 

On 18-Jan-17 09:28 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

On 01/18/2017 04:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

2017-01-17 18:35 GMT+01:00 Nelson A. de Oliveira >:

 "ele" without any other attribute is valid?



yes, you can do it, but there's the risk that following mappers will
move the node around if there's nothing visibly identifiable attached to
it, and the positional accuracy will remain opaque. (Some editors will
prominently highlight the node if it has any tag on it, others will not
make it very evident and someone might move it without noting).

JOSM will highlight a tagged node it doesn't recognize as something else
in bright cyan. iD, as of what I remember from the last time I used it,
does not differentiate between an untagged node and a tagged node it
doesn't recognize.


It would assist if the simple node with tag 'ele' on it also included the 
source so it can easily be checked and possibly a note to explain it.


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Re: [Tagging] Representing "altimetric quotas" in OSM

2017-01-18 Thread Shawn K. Quinn 
On 01/18/2017 04:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 
> 2017-01-17 18:35 GMT+01:00 Nelson A. de Oliveira  >:
> 
> "ele" without any other attribute is valid?
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you can do it, but there's the risk that following mappers will
> move the node around if there's nothing visibly identifiable attached to
> it, and the positional accuracy will remain opaque. (Some editors will
> prominently highlight the node if it has any tag on it, others will not
> make it very evident and someone might move it without noting).

JOSM will highlight a tagged node it doesn't recognize as something else
in bright cyan. iD, as of what I remember from the last time I used it,
does not differentiate between an untagged node and a tagged node it
doesn't recognize.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com



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Re: [Tagging] Representing "altimetric quotas" in OSM

2017-01-18 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 
2017-01-17 18:35 GMT+01:00 Nelson A. de Oliveira :

> "ele" without any other attribute is valid?



yes, you can do it, but there's the risk that following mappers will move
the node around if there's nothing visibly identifiable attached to it, and
the positional accuracy will remain opaque. (Some editors will prominently
highlight the node if it has any tag on it, others will not make it very
evident and someone might move it without noting).

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Representing "altimetric quotas" in OSM

2017-01-17 Thread Greg Troxel 

"Nelson A. de Oliveira"  writes:

> I really don't know if the proper term is "altimetric quota" in
> English, sorry.
>
> What we have are some places where the elevation at some points were
> measured. It's similar to man_made=survey_point but without any
> physical objects or marks there; somebody just measured the elevation
> at that point and charted it.

In English and US surveying practice, we have two things:

  "benchmark": This is a physical monument (brass disk usually, for <
  100 year old marks).  It has an established orthometric height from
  leveling.  The horizontal coordinates are not necessarily known
  precisely, just as the elevation of horizontal controls is not
  necessarily known precisely.  These are the vertical control network
  making up our NGVD29 and NAVD88 datums.  Definitely a survey_point.

  "spot elevation":  This is a notation on a topographic map giving the
  elevation at some point.  There is not necessarily a mark on the
  ground.   These probably do not belong in OSM, but if they are
  recorded in survey databases, it seems reasonable.

Now, control points are likely to be 3D, and use GPS, and have
ellipsoidal coordinates and an elevation derived from ellipsoidal height
and a geoid model.


For measured spot elevations that have some sense of officialness, I
would be tempted to call them man_made=survey_point, perhaps with
survey_poinrt=none :-)



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Re: [Tagging] Representing "altimetric quotas" in OSM

2017-01-17 Thread Mike Thompson 
On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Nelson A. de Oliveira 
wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Mike Thompson 
> wrote:
> > What about just a "ele" tag?
>
> "ele" without any other attribute is valid?
>
You can add any tag, or combination of tags, you wish into OSM. I don't
think there is any "valid" or "invalid" tags per say, only tags that are
generally accepted by the community.  Perhaps the community will be opposed
to having a stand alone "ele" tag for the situation you outlined, but this
forum exists to discuss such things. Assuming these features belong in OSM
(a separate discussion), a stand alone "ele" tag would appear to be a
straight forward way of tagging.
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Re: [Tagging] Representing "altimetric quotas" in OSM

2017-01-17 Thread Chris Hill 
A point that has a height recorded but not much else is sometimes known 
as a spot height. Not sure there are any tagged as such, but maybe 
place=spot_height or natural=spot_height ...


cheers, Chris (chillly)

On 17/01/2017 17:13, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote:

I really don't know if the proper term is "altimetric quota" in English, sorry.

What we have are some places where the elevation at some points were
measured. It's similar to man_made=survey_point but without any
physical objects or marks there; somebody just measured the elevation
at that point and charted it.

For example, the orange X with numbers at their sides here
https://i.imgur.com/keRUoI3.png are representing the charted
elevations.

Due to a misunderstanding and/or lack of a better tag, they were
inserted in OSM as peaks, like in
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-20.1043/-46.2971 and
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/-20.1032/-46.2518

Some coincide with local peaks, while some not; of course we don't
have so many peaks there.

So what we have is:
1) they are not peaks
2) some users are saying that it's polluting the map (they have a reason)
3) I don't think we should simply remove all the peaks (since the user
who mapped them had a lot of work for this)
4) we lack (or we don't know) a good tag to represent this

Is there any tag that we could use to better represent such data, please?

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Re: [Tagging] Representing "altimetric quotas" in OSM

2017-01-17 Thread Nelson A. de Oliveira 
On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:
> What about just a "ele" tag?

"ele" without any other attribute is valid?

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Re: [Tagging] Representing "altimetric quotas" in OSM

2017-01-17 Thread Mike Thompson 
On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Nelson A. de Oliveira 
wrote:

> I really don't know if the proper term is "altimetric quota" in English,
> sorry.
>
> What we have are some places where the elevation at some points were
> measured. It's similar to man_made=survey_point but without any
> physical objects or marks there; somebody just measured the elevation
> at that point and charted it.
>
>
>
> Is there any tag that we could use to better represent such data, please?
>
What about just a "ele" tag?
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