Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Anthony
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/18/2012 9:15 AM, Anthony wrote: 2012/5/18 Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com: If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Philip Barnes
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 18:07 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote: If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see the following examples, all tagged as junction=roundabout by editors other than me: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5677217

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Volker Schmidt
Some remark on these three examples: They are all so large that there is no technical advantage in tagging them as roundabouts as opposed to just normal roads that happen to be circular. Why do we want to map a junction as roundabout? The main reason is most likely that this way the navigation

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/19/2012 11:43 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote: All three examples would not be roundabouts in Germany or Italy, where the use of the roundabout tag is linked to the presence of the corresponding road sign for a roundabout, at least this seems to be common practice on OSM. In New Jersey the

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Anthony
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: Whilst I cannot think of any that have stop signs, I cannot see why they wouldn't in a country where stop signs are commonly used. It kind of defeats the purpose. If traffic has to come to a complete stop anyway, why

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Anthony
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/19/2012 11:43 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote: All three examples would not be roundabouts in Germany or Italy, where the use of the roundabout tag is linked to the presence of the corresponding road sign for a

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/19/2012 1:01 PM, Anthony wrote: I'd be interested in seeing a sign which says circle used on a roundabout, though. If you mean simply a circle where all entering traffic yields, here's one:

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Anthony
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/19/2012 1:01 PM, Anthony wrote: I'd be interested in seeing a sign which says circle used on a roundabout, though. If you mean simply a circle where all entering traffic yields No, I mean a true roundabout.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/19/2012 1:34 PM, Anthony wrote: I'm not sure that qualifies as approaching vehicles being deflected around a central island (the MUTCD definition). The deflection is being done by the islands in the four corners. Buh? So you wouldn't call

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-19 Thread Anthony
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/19/2012 1:34 PM, Anthony wrote: I'm not sure that qualifies as approaching vehicles being deflected around a central island (the MUTCD definition).  The deflection is being done by the islands in the four

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi Tobias, Sorry to start this again, but yesterday evening was a little difficult. ;-) I reread the description and tagging of the example. If I understood you correct - please correct me if not - you are confused because about this: A ROUND place with a traversable ISLAND. So round and island

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Tobias Johansson
You understand me correctly. Or maybe a text something similar to this: This picture shows a round place with a traversable island in the middle, but this is neither a mini-roundabout nor a roundabout, but instead a turning circle, which allows large vehicles to turn around. Not saying that all

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/18 Tobias Johansson t...@mensa.se: You understand me correctly. Or maybe a text something similar to this: This picture shows a round place with a traversable island in the middle, but this is neither a mini-roundabout nor a roundabout, but instead a turning circle, which allows large

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2012/5/17 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: Edit wars are what happens when someone ignores objections that have been raised and decides to arbitrarily define the existing tagging in the database as wrong. There will always be errors in the database, but if we redefine features every time

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2012/5/18 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see the following examples, all tagged as junction=roundabout by editors other than me: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5677217

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/18/2012 9:15 AM, Anthony wrote: 2012/5/18 Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com: If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see the following examples, all tagged as junction=roundabout by editors other than me: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5677217

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! I updated now the english article: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout Translations will follow in the next days. Many thanks to everyone who took part in the discussion and provided valuable feedback. Stay tuned - I'll come back to you for the next article soon ;-)

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/17/2012 3:04 PM, Martin Vonwald wrote: Hi! I updated now the english article: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout Translations will follow in the next days. Traffic circles are usually tagged as roundabouts, contrary to your statement.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Tobias Johansson
There is one thing. In Sweden we have something called Vändplats http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/sv/Vag/Vagmarken/Forbudsmarken/Vandplats/ roughly translated turnaroundplace usally in sweden we have used highway=turning_circle for this. According to this definition almost no vändplats would be

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Martin Vonwald (Imagic)
But this is exactly the definition of turning_place: a widening of the road without any island. Am 17.05.2012 um 22:23 schrieb Tobias Johansson t...@mensa.se: There is one thing. In Sweden we have something called Vändplats

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Tobias Johansson
On the page you referensed to. in the table with pictures it says A round place with a traversable island in the middle, but this is neither a mini-roundabout nor a roundabout, but instead a turning circle, which allows large vehicles to turn around. 2012/5/17 Martin Vonwald (Imagic)

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Martin Vonwald (Imagic)
Look at the second column for the suggested tagging. The wording turning circle is misleading here and does NOT refer to turning_circle; it should read turning place. But I will not do any more wiki-edits unless NE2 is banned so I can not fix this. Nonetheless thanks for pointing this out. Am

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way in an edit war. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Paul Johnson
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way in an edit war. Why do you keep starting the wars? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/17/2012 5:39 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com wrote: Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way in an edit war. Why do you keep starting the wars? Have you stopped beating your wife?

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/17/2012 5:27 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way in an edit war. By the way, his block summary is complete bullshit. He says The discussion on tagging@ mentions traffic circles and right of way several times and allways

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/17/2012 5:48 PM, Gnonthgol wrote: Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way in an edit war. I am sorry I offended you but I was not out to win an edit war. You were blocked because you edited against the consensus on the list, and when I reverted your edits

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Paul Johnson
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/17/2012 5:39 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com  wrote: Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way in an edit war. Why

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Nathan Edgars II
If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see the following examples, all tagged as junction=roundabout by editors other than me: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5677217 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/9080282

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Andrew Chadwick (lists)
On 15/05/12 22:25, Colin Smale wrote: It would be nice if these rond-points would be explicitly tagged (e.g. junction=rond_point???) so mkgmap can still easily be taught to recognise it and treat it as a roundabout even if it doesn't comply with the OSM semantics for one. Otherwise your satnav

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Martin Vonwald
First of all many thanks for your detailed and constructive feedback. 2012/5/15 Andrew Chadwick (lists) a.t.chadwick+li...@gmail.com: Still open, so please provide feedback: * Decision if traffic_calming=chicane or traffic_calming=island should be used in two of the examples Chicanes look

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/16 Andrew Chadwick (lists) a.t.chadwick+li...@gmail.com: According to Wikipedia at least, the ones without priority for circulating traffic are called traffic circles in the US, and they use the BE roundabout as we do in GB:  In the U.S., traffic engineers use the term roundabout for

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Anthony
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/15/2012 10:30 AM, Anthony wrote: Okay, so, for OSM terminology, a roundabout means 1) traffic goes in one direction; 2) entering traffic must yield; and 3) entering traffic need not stop (no stop signs). Nope.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Anthony
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: It would be nice if these rond-points would be explicitly tagged (e.g. junction=rond_point???) so mkgmap can still easily be taught to recognise it and treat it as a roundabout even if it doesn't comply with the OSM

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread fly
On 16/05/12 12:03, Martin Vonwald wrote: Thanks for your work. 8. Editor support for circles seems too prominent where it is, and nobody's really bothered about the neatening tools at first. I suggest demoting this to a later section, and maybe retitling it as Drawing neater circles.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/16 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: In the JOSM section a link to the JOSM-wiki describtions of the tools [1][2] is useful. [1] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/AlignInCircle [2] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/CreateCircle Links added - thanks.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/16/2012 8:51 AM, Anthony wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com wrote: Unless you want to invent a new tag for the New Jersey circles that give right-of-way to some approaches. I wouldn't mind. There's something fundamentally different between a

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag when one or more approaches has right-of-way? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Martin Vonwald (Imagic)
Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag when one or more approaches has right-of-way? Penalties for routing?

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote: Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com: Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag when one or more

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Steve Doerr
On 16/05/2012 19:01, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote: Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com: Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Toby Murray
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote: On 16/05/2012 19:01, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote: Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com: Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread fly
On 16/05/12 21:34, Toby Murray wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote: On 16/05/2012 19:01, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote: Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com: Does anyone

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Paul Johnson
On May 16, 2012 12:35 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: There is highway=stop and highway=give_way but their use is kind of awkward. The wiki says to put it on a node before the intersection which makes some sense but then anyone who actually wants to use it has to do some

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Anthony
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag when one or more approaches has right-of-way? I think the issue is

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/16/2012 7:41 PM, Anthony wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag when one or more approaches has

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Anthony
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/16/2012 7:41 PM, Anthony wrote:  Does anyone have an example of a traffic circle where entering traffic does not yield, but it makes sense for a satnav to say make a left at the roundabout? I'd expect to be told

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Anthony
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag when one or more approaches has right-of-way? Also, I'd prefer for my

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/16/2012 8:13 PM, Anthony wrote: Also, I'd prefer for my satnav to save the word roundabout for actual roundabouts. If it starts talking to me about roundabouts when I'm just merging onto a road which is part of an interchange which is kind of circular in shape, I'm just going to get

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Anthony
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/16/2012 8:13 PM, Anthony wrote: Also, I'd prefer for my satnav to save the word roundabout for actual roundabouts.  If it starts talking to me about roundabouts when I'm just merging onto a road which is part of

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/16/2012 8:34 PM, Anthony wrote: Anyway, while looking for an example of a roundabout, I came across this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/83428962/history Why did you remove the roundabout tag? Because it's not a complete circle... ___

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Paul Johnson
On May 16, 2012 4:47 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: I'd expect to be told take the nth exit from the roundabout/circle. How is the satnav to know if an angle of 135 degrees is straight or left? Same here, especially given situations like Ladd's Circle in Portland, which is a

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Anthony
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/16/2012 8:34 PM, Anthony wrote: Anyway, while looking for an example of a roundabout, I came across this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/83428962/history Why did you remove the roundabout tag? Because

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Anthony
Are there any alternatives to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Kein_kreisel_IMGP9185_osm.jpg ? Maybe I'm alone in this, but the three arrows are very confusing. I had to stare at the large image for quite a while before I was able to figure them out. On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:56 AM,

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Anthony
If not, maybe we could add a sentence such as Unlike at a roundabout, it is legal to drive to the right or to the left of the obstruction. Also, is it acceptable to simply map the feature as a circular way, rather than use traffic_calming=island? On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Anthony

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Also, is it acceptable to simply map the feature as a circular way, rather than use traffic_calming=island? I don't think so. Because the street is not a circular way, but instead there is an island in the middle of the street. At least this is my

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Anthony
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: 2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Also, is it acceptable to simply map the feature as a circular way, rather than use traffic_calming=island? I don't think so. Because the street is not a circular way, but instead

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Anthony
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: I don't think so. Because the street is not a circular way, but instead there is an island in the middle of the street. At least this is my interpretation.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org: However, in OSM terminology, there is no distinction between roundabouts and traffic circles, right? Yes and no ;-) ... in a roundabout entering traffic must always yield to traffic already in the circle That's junction=roundabout or highway=mini_roundabout

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Anthony
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: 2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org: ... in a roundabout entering traffic must always yield to traffic already in the circle That's junction=roundabout or highway=mini_roundabout - right-of-way whereas in a traffic

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Colin Smale
On 15/05/2012 16:30, Anthony wrote: Okay, so, for OSM terminology, a roundabout means 1) traffic goes in one direction; 2) entering traffic must yield; and 3) entering traffic need not stop (no stop signs). I hope not...OSM currently has no way of reflecting priority at junctions. Introducing

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Paul Johnson
Should also be valid for a closed way like the junction= key so detail wouldn't have to be removed in situations where such an island was mapped as a roundabout. On May 15, 2012 5:58 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: If not, maybe we could add a sentence such as Unlike at a roundabout, it is

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Ronnie Soak
2012/5/15 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl On 15/05/2012 16:30, Anthony wrote: I hope not...OSM currently has no way of reflecting priority at junctions. Introducing this distinction just for circular junctions is a bit pointless. Well there IS highway=give_way. Not that I tagged it so

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Andrew Chadwick (lists)
On 14/05/12 12:36, Martin Vonwald wrote: The reworked article about junction=roundabout is now more or less finished, so please comment on the whole article: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/Werkstatt Still open, so please provide feedback: * Decision if

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 5/15/2012 10:30 AM, Anthony wrote: Okay, so, for OSM terminology, a roundabout means 1) traffic goes in one direction; 2) entering traffic must yield; and 3) entering traffic need not stop (no stop signs). Nope. Junction=roundabout applies to all (one-way) traffic circles, no matter what

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Philip Barnes
On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 10:30 -0400, Anthony wrote: 2) entering traffic must yield; and Not always. In France there are still a few where traffic on the roundabout gives way to traffic joining the roundabout. Isn't the Arc De Triomphe the most famous 'old style'. Phil

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 10:30 -0400, Anthony wrote: 2) entering traffic must yield; and Not always. In France there are still a few where traffic on the roundabout gives way to traffic joining the roundabout. Isn't the

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Pieren
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: 2) entering traffic must yield; and Not always. In France there are still a few where traffic on the roundabout gives way to traffic joining the roundabout. Isn't the Arc De Triomphe the most famous 'old style'.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Pieren
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: It would be nice if these rond-points would be explicitly tagged (e.g. junction=rond_point???) so mkgmap can still easily be taught to recognise it and treat it as a roundabout even if it doesn't comply with the OSM

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Steve Doerr
In the UK, roundabouts do not necessarily give priority to traffic already on the roundabout. Though this is the default, it's sometimes overridden by road markings. For example, here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.35772lon=0.509867zoom=18. -- Steve

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Steve Doerr
That's not what I would call a chicane. For me, they generally involve obstructions protruding from the sides of a road. There's a picture on Wikipedia here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/One-lane_chicane_1.jpg. S On 14/05/2012 03:25, Clifford Snow wrote: On Sun, May

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us: On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: What is the difference between traffic_calming=chicane and a small roundabout?  Is it based on who has the right of way? Here is an example in Seattle. http://g.co/maps/nvhfh  We

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com: That's not what I would call a chicane. For me, they generally involve obstructions protruding from the sides of a road. There's a picture on Wikipedia here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/One-lane_chicane_1.jpg. According to

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Tobias Knerr
14.05.2012 09:50, Martin Vonwald wrote: According to the current wiki chicanes are Hazards on the street you have to drive round. This would fit the image. Also at least in my region we use traffic_calming=chicane to map these:

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2012/5/14 Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com: That's not what I would call a chicane. For me, they generally involve obstructions protruding from the sides of a road. There's a picture on Wikipedia here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/One-lane_chicane_1.jpg. IMHO all

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2012/5/14 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: IMHO all measurements aiming at reducing traffic speed by physical means can be regarded chicanes. sorry, I take that back ;-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: I consider neither that example nor the ones on your roundabout example page a chicane. Instead, I'd specifically expect _alternating_ obstructions on the left and right side of the road. Your example is more like an island. What is your

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: 2012/5/14 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: I consider neither that example nor the ones on your roundabout example page a chicane. Instead, I'd specifically expect _alternating_ obstructions on the left and right side of the road. Your example

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Tobias Knerr
14.05.2012 13:04, Martin Vonwald: Actually a wiki page exists for that: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:traffic_calming=island It was created just two months ago and the value is not documented in the main article about traffic calming. The value is used about 400 times currently.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! The reworked article about junction=roundabout is now more or less finished, so please comment on the whole article: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/Werkstatt Still open, so please provide feedback: * Decision if traffic_calming=chicane or traffic_calming=island should be used

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Peter Wendorff
If anyone of you is going to edit that page anyway, please add the combination suggestions with highway=crossing; crossing=island; I would say, not all islands are island-crossings, but (nearly all) crossings with an islands calm down traffic, so it's a useful combination. regards Peter Am

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de: If anyone of you is going to edit that page anyway, please add the combination suggestions with highway=crossing; crossing=island; I would say, not all islands are island-crossings, but (nearly all) crossings with an islands calm down

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2012/5/14 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: 2012/5/14 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de: If anyone of you is going to edit that page anyway, please add the combination suggestions with highway=crossing; crossing=island; I would say, not all islands are island-crossings, but (nearly

[Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-13 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! As promised I created a few (positive/negative) examples of roundabouts, mini-roundabouts and turning circles to prevent misinterpretations in the future. I respected the current tagging scheme as described in the wiki, but also used once the suggested junction=roundabout on a node, which was

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-13 Thread Anthony
Please pardon the ignorant American question: What is the difference between traffic_calming=chicane and a small roundabout? Is it based on who has the right of way? Does anyone have an example of something like this in the US? Or is it safe to say that these don't exist here? On Sun, May 13,

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-13 Thread Clifford Snow
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Please pardon the ignorant American question: What is the difference between traffic_calming=chicane and a small roundabout? Is it based on who has the right of way? Does anyone have an example of something like this in the US?