Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Yes, thank you for the quote, that is what I was referring to. On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:40 PM SelfishSeahorse wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 21:24, bkil wrote: > > > > crossing=uncontrolled had just this meaning - not controlled or > > arranged by any device but instead always negotiated

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 21:24, bkil wrote: > > crossing=uncontrolled had just this meaning - not controlled or > arranged by any device but instead always negotiated in situ between > traffic participants. [...] > > It should definitely not be understood as a synonym for "unmarked". > I'll try to

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Hungarian rules are similar to what Jyri-Petteri Paloposki described above (traffic light + vertical sign + road stripes + stop/give_way can be present for the same crossing). We have an extra twist, in that bicycles at crossings generally do not have precedence. Priority here is similar to what

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

26. Oct 2018 12:44 by t.pfei...@computer.org : > On 26.10.2018 09:28, SelfishSeahorse wrote: >> What about tagging the presence or absence of traffic signals with a >> subkey, e.g. crossing:traffic_signals=yes/no? > > Why should we invent a new subtagging scheme

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

26. Oct 2018 16:24 by dieterdre...@gmail.com : > I acknowledge the American situation is very different to the European > because over here there’s no concept like jaywalking, so for Europe I must > agree with Tom: without any markings and signs it seems

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Hi Here is my opinion about that If your query crossing in taginfo you may find 10 main values [1]: uncontrolled > 668.448 but with marks (generic). I think they might be zebra crossings. zebra > 541.412 traffic_signals > 520.238 with traffic lights unmarked > 146.241 without marks of any kind

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 18:24, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > > That's true and i agree, but how would you name a tag of a pedestrian > crossing where pedestrians have right of way (and that doesn't have > traffic lights) crossing=pedestrian_right_of_way? for me that’s a

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 17:13, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > On 26. Oct 2018, at 16:39, SelfishSeahorse > > wrote: > > > > Because road markings at crossings tell pedestrians if they have right > > of way or not. > > it depends on the jurisdiction which kind of markings have which

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 17:09, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > On 26. Oct 2018, at 16:39, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > > > > Yes, the (yellow) zebra crossings are called 'zebra stripes' > > (Zebrastreifen) -- or officially 'pedestrian stripes' > > (Fussgängerstreifen) -- independently if there are

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26/10/18 16:14, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> On 26. Oct 2018, at 16:41, Robert Skedgell wrote: >> >> An unmarked crossing may have no road markings or signs, but if there is >> tactile paving and/or a raised/lowered/flush kerb on the footway >> (sidewalk), how else would one tag it? > > >

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 16:41, Robert Skedgell wrote: > > An unmarked crossing may have no road markings or signs, but if there is > tactile paving and/or a raised/lowered/flush kerb on the footway > (sidewalk), how else would one tag it? obstacle=trap Cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 16:39, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > > Because road markings at crossings tell pedestrians if they have right > of way or not. it depends on the jurisdiction which kind of markings have which implications or meanings. We’re mostly interested in collecting

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 16:39, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > > Yes, the (yellow) zebra crossings are called 'zebra stripes' > (Zebrastreifen) -- or officially 'pedestrian stripes' > (Fussgängerstreifen) -- independently if there are traffic lights or > not. is a sign required in

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26/10/18 15:39, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 16:14, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: >> we generally do not map road markings, we don’t map the divider lines between lanes, we don’t map diagonally striped areas where traffic can’t go, we don’t map stop lines, we don’t map any

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26/10/18 14:49, marc marc wrote: > Le 26. 10. 18 à 10:27, Robert Skedgell a écrit : >> Do you have any UK examples of zebra crossings with traffic signals? > > https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/D8E > I dind't have any local knownledge of those but you can see that some > mapper repport a zebra

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Le 26. 10. 18 à 14:57, SelfishSeahorse a écrit : > How would you tag the absence of traffic signals? crossing=no_traffic_signals? the most common is crossing=uncontrolled some mappers find it a bad value (and it is) but again, imho that need another propal to avoid an all-in-one

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26.10.2018 11:11, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > In general crossing tag is attempting to tag several different things > at once - for example how I am supposed to tag crossing with island, > traffic lights and zebra markings in Poland? The presence of an island is quite commonly tagged as

[Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26.10.2018 16:24, Tom Pfeifer wrote: > Do you see the contradiction? If the crossing is unmarked, the ground > object already does not provide any guidance. As we map what's on the > ground, there is nothing to map. It's not uncommon for a crossing to be physically evident on the ground (e.g.

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Le 26. 10. 18 à 11:53, Max a écrit : > In Germany you have either zebra markings or traffic lights, NEVER both. so some tagging errors in Germany or that exist but you don't known it for ex https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2965700264 With the aerial imagery Ersi, I see the zebra and a pole...

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26/10/18 11:44, Tom Pfeifer wrote: > On 26.10.2018 09:28, SelfishSeahorse wrote: >> What about tagging the presence or absence of traffic signals with a >> subkey, e.g. crossing:traffic_signals=yes/no? > > Why should we invent a new subtagging scheme when we already have one > with crossing=*

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 16:14, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > > sent from a phone > > > On 26. Oct 2018, at 14:57, SelfishSeahorse > > wrote: > > > > And what about the absence of road markings? crossing_ref=unmarked? > > > we generally do not map road markings, we don’t map the divider lines

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 16:17, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > in Switzerland? In Italy they aren’t called zebra crossings (despite the > markings), they’re called traffic lights with pedestrian crossing. A zebra > crossing here means there aren’t traffic lights. Yes, the (yellow) zebra

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 16:22, Tobias Knerr wrote: > > There already is a perfectly fine value for marked crosswalks, which is > called "uncontrolled". it unfortunately isn’t perfectly fine, it is completely self contradicting, because markings are a kind of control. It is

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26.10.2018 15:37, Bryan Housel wrote: On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:44 AM, Tom Pfeifer wrote: Tagging "unmarked crossings" does not make sense for me. An unmarked crossing is defined in OSM by a road and a footway sharing a node, there is no need for a tag here, as there is nothing special.

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 15:37, Bryan Housel wrote: > > Try to imagine what crossing the street might be like for someone who can not > cross the road everywhere and could benefit from guidance to tell them where > it is possible or safe. how would this be verifiable? If

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26.10.2018 01:18, Bryan Housel wrote: > Oh! I don’t like `crossing=zebra` either. Not sure whether you caught the > end of that issue #4788, but anyway I've decided I'm tired of hearing people > complain about `crossing=zebra` so going forward iD will support these 2 > presets: > > -

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 15:15, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > > Because there are countries where pedestrian crossings with traffic > signals also have zebra markings and it's not obvious that > crossing=zebra excludes crossings with traffic signals (they are even > called zebra

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 14:57, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > > And what about the absence of road markings? crossing_ref=unmarked? we generally do not map road markings, we don’t map the divider lines between lanes, we don’t map diagonally striped areas where traffic can’t go,

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 26. Oct 2018, at 12:26, Volker Schmidt wrote: > > Re: precedence of vertical signalling over horizontal signalling > I am not sure about this here in Italy and even less so in other countries. I’m not sure for Italy either but I’m sure for Germany, there is a

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 15:29, Bryan Housel wrote: > > `crossing=marked` and `crossing=unmarked` are not new. They’ve been in use > for years. > > They solve the problem in that they are unambiguous and beginner-friendly. Unfortunately crossing=marked doesn't make a difference compared to

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Le 26. 10. 18 à 10:27, Robert Skedgell a écrit : > Do you have any UK examples of zebra crossings with traffic signals? https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/D8E I dind't have any local knownledge of those but you can see that some mapper repport a zebra ground painting and a traffic light that apply to a

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:44 AM, Tom Pfeifer wrote: > > Tagging "unmarked crossings" does not make sense for me. An unmarked crossing > is defined in OSM by a road and a footway sharing a node, there is no need > for a tag here, as there is nothing special. > > Otherwise I would need to set a

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 12:53, Jyri-Petteri Paloposki wrote: > > On 26.10.2018 10.44, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > > There are some marked non-zebra crossings in Switzerland: > > > > https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/zMqUsiFYNMiJ3_kA4ODHSQ > > https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/OVsXNBwnJXFIAobJxFjUlQ > >

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:26 AM, marc marc wrote: > > Le 26. 10. 18 à 01:18, Bryan Housel a écrit : >> I don’t like `crossing=zebra` either.<...> iD will support these 2 presets: >> - `crossing=marked` which is labeled “Marked Crosswalk" >> - `crossing=unmarked` which is labeled “Unmarked

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 12:46, Tom Pfeifer wrote: > > Why should we invent a new subtagging scheme when we already have one with > crossing=* + crossing_ref=* ? Because there are countries where pedestrian crossings with traffic signals also have zebra markings and it's not obvious that

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 12:37, marc marc wrote: > > Le 26. 10. 18 à 09:28, SelfishSeahorse a écrit : > > What about tagging the presence or absence of traffic signals with a > > subkey, e.g. crossing:traffic_signals=yes/no? > > it is indeed always possible to take out all the values to make > them

[Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26.10.2018 13.26, Volker Schmidt wrote: > Re: marking= zebra > Problem is that the zebra stripes can have different meaning in > different countries. In Italy it can mean, depending on the context: > "foot-only" or "foot-and-bicycle". In addition we also have additional > non-zebra signing for

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26.10.2018 10.44, SelfishSeahorse wrote: > There are some marked non-zebra crossings in Switzerland: > > https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/zMqUsiFYNMiJ3_kA4ODHSQ > https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/OVsXNBwnJXFIAobJxFjUlQ > > However, i'm unsure if vehicles have to stop there if pedestrians want

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Le 26. 10. 18 à 09:41, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > traffic light controlled crossings also have zebra markings. so a crossing with a zebra ground marking (as a armchair mapper may create) must not be mapped with crossing=zebra :) It's the need to move ground marking out of the crossing=* key

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26.10.2018 09:28, SelfishSeahorse wrote: What about tagging the presence or absence of traffic signals with a subkey, e.g. crossing:traffic_signals=yes/no? Why should we invent a new subtagging scheme when we already have one with crossing=* + crossing_ref=* ? On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Le 26. 10. 18 à 09:28, SelfishSeahorse a écrit : > What about tagging the presence or absence of traffic signals with a > subkey, e.g. crossing:traffic_signals=yes/no? it is indeed always possible to take out all the values to make them keys. but if iD only enters the marking in crossing_ref like

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Le 26. 10. 18 à 01:18, Bryan Housel a écrit : > I don’t like `crossing=zebra` either.<...> iD will support these 2 presets: > - `crossing=marked` which is labeled “Marked Crosswalk" > - `crossing=unmarked` which is labeled “Unmarked Crossing” thanks for understanding that a issue exist, the first

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Re: marking= zebra Problem is that the zebra stripes can have different meaning in different countries. In Italy it can mean, depending on the context: "foot-only" or "foot-and-bicycle". In addition we also have additional non-zebra signing for bicycles. It would be much better to distinguish

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26/10/18 10:27, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018 um 11:21 Uhr schrieb Robert Skedgell > mailto:r...@hubris.org.uk>>: > > > I wonder if it's possible differentiate between a normal traffic signal > controlled crossing, an uncontrolled zebra crossing and the type of

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 11:30, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Tagging way crossing=traffic_island and nodes crossing=traffic_signals is > deeply not obvious. +1. That's too complicated. Furthermore it doesn't work on one-carriageway roads like e.g. here:

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 11:12, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Yes. For example in Poland there are crossing markings that look > very similar and have the same name with different legal > implications. Is there more than one marked crossings type w/o traffic signals in Poland? That is, one where

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26.10.18 11:27, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Often there are also other signs on traffic signal controlled intersections, like stop or give way signs, which only go into effect in the case of the traffic lights turned off (common situation in Germany). Just to clarify: In Germany you have

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018 um 11:30 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny < matkoni...@tutanota.com>: > Am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018 um 11:12 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny < > matkoni...@tutanota.com>: > > In general crossing tag is attempting to tag several different things >> >> at once - for example how I am

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

> A traffic light controlled crossing is not a zebra crossing, even if it has > zebra markings (also here they do have zebra markings) And it may be root of problem. In Poland "zebra" is synonym of  "marked pedestrian crossing" - seehttps://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przej%C5%9Bcie_dla_pieszych

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018 um 11:21 Uhr schrieb Robert Skedgell < r...@hubris.org.uk>: > > I wonder if it's possible differentiate between a normal traffic signal > controlled crossing, an uncontrolled zebra crossing and the type of > crossing you describe using appropriate values of traffic_sign=* ?

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018 um 11:12 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny < matkoni...@tutanota.com>: > In general crossing tag is attempting to tag several different things > > at once - for example how I am supposed to tag crossing with island, > > traffic lights and zebra markings in Poland? > in the

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 26/10/18 09:34, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018 um 10:28 Uhr schrieb Robert Skedgell > mailto:r...@hubris.org.uk>>: > > At a zebra crossing, vehicles must give precedence to pedestrians on the > crossing. No traffic signals are necessary to stop traffic in order

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

25. Oct 2018 23:39 by marc_marc_...@hotmail.com : > so my request is : how to avoid again a multi-meaning tag ? Create multiple tags and do not attempt to create shortcut again. In general crossing tag is attempting to tag several different things at

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018 um 10:28 Uhr schrieb Robert Skedgell < r...@hubris.org.uk>: > At a zebra crossing, vehicles must give precedence to pedestrians on the > crossing. No traffic signals are necessary to stop traffic in order for > pedestrians to cross. > > It may be the case that there are

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On 25/10/18 22:39, marc marc wrote: > Hello, > > I have a big issue with crossing=zebra. > it prevent to fill in the other value for crossing like > crossing=traffic_signals crossing=uncontrolled > the wiki [1] said that crossing=zebra is a shortchut for > crossing=uncontrolled +

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 01:19, Bryan Housel wrote: > > Oh! I don’t like `crossing=zebra` either. Not sure whether you caught the > end of that issue #4788, but anyway I've decided I'm tired of hearing people > complain about `crossing=zebra` so going forward iD will support these 2 > presets:

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 at 00:02, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > I agree that in areas where marked pedestrian crossings aren’t marked as > zebra crossings, the tag could create problems or could not apply (I do not > know about such places but someone wrote it in the wiki). There are some marked

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Am Fr., 26. Okt. 2018 um 00:55 Uhr schrieb marc marc < marc_marc_...@hotmail.com>: > But "iD issue" is "load the aerial imagery, look for a zebra" > select a node, search for crossing, select "crossing(zebra)" > iD add highway=crossing crossing=zebra. upload the changeset. > it may work in some

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 at 23:40, marc marc wrote: > > Hello, > > I have a big issue with crossing=zebra. > it prevent to fill in the other value for crossing like > crossing=traffic_signals crossing=uncontrolled > the wiki [1] said that crossing=zebra is a shortchut for > crossing=uncontrolled +

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Oh! I don’t like `crossing=zebra` either. Not sure whether you caught the end of that issue #4788, but anyway I've decided I'm tired of hearing people complain about `crossing=zebra` so going forward iD will support these 2 presets: - `crossing=marked` which is labeled “Marked Crosswalk"

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Le 26. 10. 18 à 00:01, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > if you see crossing=zebra as an alternative tagging for what the wiki > suggests the misleading “uncontrolled” yes, it's one meaning currently described as "valid in the UK" (crossing=zebra = crossing=uncontrolled + crossing_ref=zebra) But

Re: [Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

sent from a phone > On 25. Oct 2018, at 23:39, marc marc wrote: > > I have a big issue with crossing=zebra. > it prevent to fill in the other value for crossing like > crossing=traffic_signals crossing=uncontrolled if you see crossing=zebra as an alternative tagging for what the wiki

[Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Hello, I have a big issue with crossing=zebra. it prevent to fill in the other value for crossing like crossing=traffic_signals crossing=uncontrolled the wiki [1] said that crossing=zebra is a shortchut for crossing=uncontrolled + crossing_ref=zebra in the UK but a lot of zebra also in UK and