[Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Vojtech Filipec]

It seems to me the discussion is now about three points:

1. landfill vs. spoil_heap: In Czechia these two are considered two
distinct landscape elements. The heaps climb above the horizon and due to
(typically) sharp slopes and plateau on top, they are easy to distinguish
from a natural hill so I consider them a good orientation feature worth
mapping. Landfills can take a form of a hill too, but IMHO the more recent
approach is to dig them under the line of horizon.

2. whether to extend the Map Features page: I share Graeme's opinion which
I distill into: "The Map Features page takes long to load yet it is a good
starting point for novices". Thinking about myself, I remember the page was
a great intro and - despite its length - I actually like the idea we're
having a comprehensive documentation of the features. I do not think we
shall limit our effort to document things due to technical constraints.

3. how to "tame" the Map Features page size: Splitting it into "most used
features" and "extended tags" might work; or having a navigation page with
categories linked to separate pages might too; I have no opinion on this.
Cheers
Vojtech

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> Message-ID:
>  nv3-hboydda1k5nru41g...@mail.gmail.com>
> Yep, there's a lot on it, & it takes a while to open.
>
> But there's also no reason not to make use of it!
>
> The people on this list are, I would say, well & truly towards the more
> experienced end of the OSM spectrum, so you may not use it (although I
> still do when I can't remember exactly what I want! :-)), *BUT*, if I may
> be so bold, that page isn't there for experienced mappers, it's there for
> the newbies who don't know all the options, have never heard of TagInfo,
> may know the wiki is there but not how to use it & so on.
>
> Yes, I'd like to see Map Features expanded so that everything with over 500
> uses is there, but also tidied - maybe only a list of "topics" eg aero,
> amenity, highway, man_made etc, each with a brief description & linking to
> a separate page with all of those items listed?
>
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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Tod Fitch]

> On Jun 3, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Jarek Piórkowski  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
>  wrote:
> (about Map Features wiki page)
>> In its current state it is still barely usable.
> 
> Personally I've given up on the current Map Features page and would
> rather use the wiki search or taginfo search than wait for it to load
> and probably still not find what I'm actually looking for.
> 

+1

I can’t recall the last time I went to the map features page. Like Jarek, I 
just use the wiki search and/or taginfo.

Cheers!
Tod




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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Yves]

Graeme is right, plus it's a curated list on the wiki, this had its advantages!
Maybe splitting it in 'main' (50k uses) and 'extended' may help.
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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Tod Fitch]

> On Jun 3, 2020, at 4:19 PM, Paul Allen  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 23:56, Joseph Eisenberg  > wrote:
> 
> The one issue is whether it is clearly different than landuse=landfill.
> 
> Different.
> 
> Spoil heaps are, as the Wikipedia article documents, heaps.  Tips.  Piles.
> Piles of non-degradable mining waste.  Rock.  Rubble.  You pile them
> up and that's how they remain (except in the case of disasters, such
> as Aberfan).
> 
> Landfills are (generally) holes in the ground that are filled in and often 
> act as
> bio-reactors to degrade organic material.
> 
> Not the same thing.  Usually.  At least not in the UK.
> 

Not the same thing in the US either.





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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Yep, there's a lot on it, & it takes a while to open.

But there's also no reason not to make use of it!

The people on this list are, I would say, well & truly towards the more
experienced end of the OSM spectrum, so you may not use it (although I
still do when I can't remember exactly what I want! :-)), *BUT*, if I may
be so bold, that page isn't there for experienced mappers, it's there for
the newbies who don't know all the options, have never heard of TagInfo,
may know the wiki is there but not how to use it & so on.

Yes, I'd like to see Map Features expanded so that everything with over 500
uses is there, but also tidied - maybe only a list of "topics" eg aero,
amenity, highway, man_made etc, each with a brief description & linking to
a separate page with all of those items listed?

Do-able?

Thanks

Graeme


On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 11:33, Tod Fitch  wrote:

>
> > On Jun 3, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Jarek Piórkowski 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
> >  wrote:
> > (about Map Features wiki page)
> >> In its current state it is still barely usable.
> >
> > Personally I've given up on the current Map Features page and would
> > rather use the wiki search or taginfo search than wait for it to load
> > and probably still not find what I'm actually looking for.
> >
>
> +1
>
> I can’t recall the last time I went to the map features page. Like Jarek,
> I just use the wiki search and/or taginfo.
>
> Cheers!
> Tod
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 4. Jun 2020, at 02:41, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging 
>  wrote:
> 
> All features with 50+ uses? It would probably not load within minute in a 
> typical browser.


you’re right, make it 500

> 
> In its current state it is still barely usable.


+1

Cheers Martin 


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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Jarek Piórkowski]

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
 wrote:
(about Map Features wiki page)
> In its current state it is still barely usable.

Personally I've given up on the current Map Features page and would
rather use the wiki search or taginfo search than wait for it to load
and probably still not find what I'm actually looking for.

--Jarek

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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Jun 4, 2020, 02:37 by dieterdre...@gmail.com:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 4. Jun 2020, at 02:29, Joseph Eisenberg  
>> wrote:
>>
>> The Map Features page is already quite long and unwieldy, so it is 
>> reasonable to limit how many more tags are added.
>>
>
>
> yes, it is already so long, it really doesn’t matter so much whether you add 
> another item or not, it’s too long to read entirely. My suggestion would be 
> to make it either very short so it’s obvious it is incomplete and only major 
> tags (examples), or add everything with something like 50+ or 100+ uses.
>
All features with 50+ uses? It would probably not load within minute in a 
typical browser.

In its current state it is still barely usable.
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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 4. Jun 2020, at 02:29, Joseph Eisenberg  wrote:
> 
> The Map Features page is already quite long and unwieldy, so it is reasonable 
> to limit how many more tags are added.


yes, it is already so long, it really doesn’t matter so much whether you add 
another item or not, it’s too long to read entirely. My suggestion would be to 
make it either very short so it’s obvious it is incomplete and only major tags 
(examples), or add everything with something like 50+ or 100+ uses.

Cheers Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Joseph Eisenberg]

>
>
>>
>> & is there any reason *not* to add things to the map features page?
>>
>
> Things that are rarely mapped are not good candidates for a page listing
> things that are frequently mapped.
>
>
Right now there are 105 documented tags with the key "man_made:", and only
50 of these are listed on Map Features and Key:man_made. (See the number
next to "documented values" on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:man_made)

There are  261 documented amenity=* values (with a wiki page):
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Tag_descriptions_for_key_%22amenity%22

The Map Features page is already quite long and unwieldy, so it is
reasonable to limit how many more tags are added. Generally these tags
should have community consensus, demonstrated by being used widely in a
number of different places, and hopefully there isn't another identical or
similar tag.

– Joseph
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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Paul Allen]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 01:00, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> & is there any reason *not* to add things to the map features page?
>

Things that are rarely mapped are not good candidates for a page listing
things that are frequently mapped.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Or Australia!

& is there any reason *not* to add things to the map features page?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Paul Allen]

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 23:56, Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

>
> The one issue is whether it is clearly different than landuse=landfill.
>

Different.

Spoil heaps are, as the Wikipedia article documents, heaps.  Tips.  Piles.
Piles of non-degradable mining waste.  Rock.  Rubble.  You pile them
up and that's how they remain (except in the case of disasters, such
as Aberfan).

Landfills are (generally) holes in the ground that are filled in and often
act as
bio-reactors to degrade organic material.

Not the same thing.  Usually.  At least not in the UK.

-- 
Paul
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[Tagging] Adding man_made=spoil_heap to the Map Features page?

[Joseph Eisenberg]

Another user would like to add the tag man_made=spoil_heap to Map Features:

"The tag man_made =
spoil_heap is used to map a spoil heap or Spoil tip
, a pile or piles of waste rock
removed during mining."

This tag was documented in 2015 as "in use" when it was used 600 times, and
has now been used 2400 times:
https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/man_made/spoil_heap

Usage is fairly concentrated in Scotland, Russia, central Europe, plus a
couple of spots in the USA and in South America:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=man_made=spoil_heap#map

The one issue is whether it is clearly different than landuse=landfill.

Thoughts on whether this tag is common enough and well established enough
that it should be on Map Features?

– Joseph Eisenberg
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