Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 2:28 AM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote: At a lot of tool stores they sell a cheap little metal tab that is a key fob, and it has various tabs along its sides that are shaped for standard and phillips screws (a tapered tab to fit into one of the slots on a phillips screw). Put it on your keyring and you can open a lot more sizes of screws than a dime or single driver ever could. I used to do that, but found I had to use a key retractor to avoid having it tear holes in my pockets. Just be aware that getting spotted tampering with the outlets - especially now since modern airports have hundreds of outlets for personal use - could land you in a small security room for a couple hours, or on a list. Portland International seems to be a notable exception (to the point that most of these protective doors, having been left open by accident by various people, have been ripped off entirely). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
At a lot of tool stores they sell a cheap little metal tab that is a key fob, and it has various tabs along its sides that are shaped for standard and phillips screws (a tapered tab to fit into one of the slots on a phillips screw). Put it on your keyring and you can open a lot more sizes of screws than a dime or single driver ever could. Just be aware that getting spotted tampering with the outlets - especially now since modern airports have hundreds of outlets for personal use - could land you in a small security room for a couple hours, or on a list. And you allowed to map the location of the room while you're there ^_^ Javbw On Jun 17, 2015, at 8:17 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: One could tag every power outlet that seems to be in a public space. For many years I charged my laptop at airports by finding the places the cleaning crew plugged in their vacuum cleaners. But that sort of accidental charging station is of a different character to a designated place. Why? A random outlet is unlikely to be well positioned, maintained or universally usable for device charging. People are free to map those outlets, but rendering should be able to choose if they are included. I don't see these as the same feature at all. Before it became disallowed, I used to carry a flathead screwdriver (or multitool) for this task, as many floor mounted, and sometimes wall mounted, outlets are covered by a device designed to protect it from foot or cart traffic when not in use. Now that such devices are disallowed from many public spaces where you're likely to be stuck busy waiting forever, I've found a quarter, dime or the head of a key often gets the job done... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 18:07 +0100, Craig Wallace wrote: Why does everything have to be a 'station'? A station is a place where trains stop, not where you plug your phone in. Plus it makes the tag unnecessarily verbose, and more prone to errors. Simpler to just tag amenity=device_charging +1 or if a subtag on an device_charging=yes/mains/usb. I would expect an available mains socket is the norm, a USB socket is rather fragile for public use. Yet, I still find these in fairly public places; when I'm traveling, I'll carry a USB cable that has no data leads for the purpose of charging, just in case I did something stupid like leave USB debugging on, as juice jacking http://www.howtogeek.com/166497/htg-explains-what-is-juice-jacking-and-how-worried-should-you-be/ is a thing that exists. I'm not trusting of using someone else's cable to connect to power, so if I can't use my own data-free USB cable for the task, nope... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: One could tag every power outlet that seems to be in a public space. For many years I charged my laptop at airports by finding the places the cleaning crew plugged in their vacuum cleaners. But that sort of accidental charging station is of a different character to a designated place. Why? A random outlet is unlikely to be well positioned, maintained or universally usable for device charging. People are free to map those outlets, but rendering should be able to choose if they are included. I don't see these as the same feature at all. Before it became disallowed, I used to carry a flathead screwdriver (or multitool) for this task, as many floor mounted, and sometimes wall mounted, outlets are covered by a device designed to protect it from foot or cart traffic when not in use. Now that such devices are disallowed from many public spaces where you're likely to be stuck busy waiting forever, I've found a quarter, dime or the head of a key often gets the job done... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 10/06/2015 4:44 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Here's a writeup on a Duck tag for this feature: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station The name works well for the intended use. However it limits the use of the tag. For example .. a tourist might be able to charge their phone/etc in a cafe/pub when they stop for a drink/meal. It may not be a 'designated device charging station' but the hardware is there. Normally you would ask before use .. but it is handy to know so a selection could be made before entry and asking. Use of the access key could use used to signify the asking condition. Thus I think the name needs to be more universal, so that it may be used for any power socket, preferably ones that are available for use (not access=private! :-) ). The value 'power_socket' might suit? The keys 'amenity' or 'man_made' are applicable ... https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3539479319/history I strongly feel that amenity=charging_station is fully entrenched as a vehicle charging station, and thus a new tag is needed. Using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply#Tag_values_for_type_of_sockets might work well, as long as the top level tag is new. +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Here's a writeup on a Duck tag for this feature: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3539479319/history I strongly feel that amenity=charging_station is fully entrenched as a vehicle charging station, and thus a new tag is needed. Using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply#Tag_values_for_type_of_sockets might work well, as long as the top level tag is new. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/06/2015 4:44 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station The name works well for the intended use. However it limits the use of the tag. For example .. a tourist might be able to charge their phone/etc in a cafe/pub when they stop for a drink/meal. It may not be a 'designated device charging station' but the hardware is there. A power spot under the table at Starbucks becomes a node within the shop outline: amenity=device_charging_station access=customers operator=Starbucks socket:device:USB-A=yes Or an attribute of the shop: shop=cafe name=Quaint Cafe in Paris device_charging_station=public (no purchase required) Event venues often have lockers (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station ) amenity=device_charging_station access=destination (it is inside a paid area) operator=Big Event Centre Centre fee=yes lockers=yes --- One could tag every power outlet that seems to be in a public space. For many years I charged my laptop at airports by finding the places the cleaning crew plugged in their vacuum cleaners. But that sort of accidental charging station is of a different character to a designated place. Chain store device charging (like every corporate Starbucks location) should be discussed. Maybe adding nodes to every one is less useful than creating a higher level expectation that the chain offers the amenity unless tagged with device_charging_station=no. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: +1 I would expect an available mains socket is the norm, a USB socket is rather fragile for public use. There are tens of thousands of public USB sockets. Vendors in China make special rugged sockets just for this. Plus, if you take the time to real the proposal, there are lockable cubbies for your mobile device, which have multiple charger heads (e.g. Apple 30 Pin, Micro-USB, USB 3.0, etc). -- The existing amenity=charging_station could be retagged to amenity=ev_charging or amenity=vehicle_charging. With a suitable overlap period, data consumers could adapt. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On Wed, 2015-06-10 at 18:07 +0100, Craig Wallace wrote: Why does everything have to be a 'station'? A station is a place where trains stop, not where you plug your phone in. Plus it makes the tag unnecessarily verbose, and more prone to errors. Simpler to just tag amenity=device_charging +1 or if a subtag on an device_charging=yes/mains/usb. I would expect an available mains socket is the norm, a USB socket is rather fragile for public use. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 2015-06-10 07:44, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Here's a writeup on a Duck tag for this feature: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3539479319/history I strongly feel that amenity=charging_station is fully entrenched as a vehicle charging station, and thus a new tag is needed. Using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply#Tag_values_for_type_of_sockets might work well, as long as the top level tag is new. Why does everything have to be a 'station'? A station is a place where trains stop, not where you plug your phone in. Plus it makes the tag unnecessarily verbose, and more prone to errors. Simpler to just tag amenity=device_charging I would agree it is very different to places where you charge your car, so should be a separate tag. And maybe that tag should be changed to amenity=vehicle_charging or similar. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 11/06/2015 2:38 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/06/2015 4:44 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Device_Charging_Station The name works well for the intended use. However it limits the use of the tag. For example .. a tourist might be able to charge their phone/etc in a cafe/pub when they stop for a drink/meal. It may not be a 'designated device charging station' but the hardware is there. A power spot under the table at Starbucks becomes a node within the shop outline: amenity=device_charging_station But the intention there is not a 'device_charging_station'? --- One could tag every power outlet that seems to be in a public space. For many years I charged my laptop at airports by finding the places the cleaning crew plugged in their vacuum cleaners. But that sort of accidental charging station is of a different character to a designated place. If they are usefull and of interest to the public then I'd map them. Where they cannot be used ..I'd not map them. Another case. Camp sites in their shower block sometimes provide power sockets for hair driers/shavers .. they can also be used for device charging. Oh .. those with laundries may have power sockets for irons ... Chain store device charging (like every corporate Starbucks location) should be discussed. Maybe adding nodes to every one is less useful than creating a higher level expectation that the chain offers the amenity unless tagged with device_charging_station=no. +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
One could tag every power outlet that seems to be in a public space. For many years I charged my laptop at airports by finding the places the cleaning crew plugged in their vacuum cleaners. But that sort of accidental charging station is of a different character to a designated place. Why? A random outlet is unlikely to be well positioned, maintained or universally usable for device charging. People are free to map those outlets, but rendering should be able to choose if they are included. I don't see these as the same feature at all. --- Another type of port often seen are shaver only ports, intended to be unusable for anything else. Camp sites may have these, and they may work for device charging in some limited cases, but they are clearly not dedicated for that purpose. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 26/05/2015 6:28 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 25.05.2015 um 17:18 schrieb Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: amenity=charging_station fee=no access=public socket:USB=yes socket:typeb=yes motor_vehicle=no There are currently only 7 socket:typeb=* in the world including the 6 I just added and a similar number of socket:USB=* access public seems pointless to tag socket:USB and socket:typeb should be one tag if you want to say USB type B, (e.g. usb_b) motor_vehicle no is likely an attribute of the area and not of the charging station Some of the 'problems' are that amenity=charging_station is not 'approved' .. and my not have been discussed internationally and therefore lacks contributions from a wide audience. the mooted extension to camp_sites power_supply= also has not been discussed ... there is a suggested socket:typeb= for American NEMA 5-15 sockets (on the charging_station discussion page) ... hopefully they will be =nema_5_15 which is much more descriptive and separates them for other typeb' sockets! For me the solution is; 1) a tag for power_sockets .. probably along lines similar to power_supply= Link http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply#Tag_values_for_type_of_sockets. 2) a new tag for motor vehicle charging stations with a better name and description of the socket/s there. Perhaps the two could be combined ? For vehicle charging amenity=vehicle_charging with power_socket=nema_5_15 and for the placement of a simple socket on a desk amenity=desk with power_socket=nema_5_15 So you could combine the power socket with any suitable object .. the external wall of a building for example. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Am 27.05.2015 um 00:42 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: So, you favour tagging for the renderer ? If it's a charging station it should be tagged as such and indicate what it will charge. yes, but there is no established tag for a generic charging station, there is one for vehicle charging but phones or laptops aren't vehicles by common sense. cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Am 25.05.2015 um 17:18 schrieb Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: amenity=charging_station fee=no access=public socket:USB=yes socket:typeb=yes motor_vehicle=no There are currently only 7 socket:typeb=* in the world including the 6 I just added and a similar number of socket:USB=* access public seems pointless to tag socket:USB and socket:typeb should be one tag if you want to say USB type B, (e.g. usb_b) motor_vehicle no is likely an attribute of the area and not of the charging station cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 26 May 2015 at 18:32, Andrew Guertin andrew.guer...@uvm.edu wrote: On 05/23/2015 12:47 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. By going against the documentation, you are breaking the data for consumers that follow the documentation. At the very least Osmand 2.0.4 shows any POIs tagged with amenity=charging_station along with gas stations when you look for filling stations in the menu. I strongly oppose breaking consumers like this just because the tag name seems similar. --Andrew So, you favour tagging for the renderer ? If it's a charging station it should be tagged as such and indicate what it will charge. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 05/23/2015 12:47 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. By going against the documentation, you are breaking the data for consumers that follow the documentation. At the very least Osmand 2.0.4 shows any POIs tagged with amenity=charging_station along with gas stations when you look for filling stations in the menu. I strongly oppose breaking consumers like this just because the tag name seems similar. --Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
AYTOUN RALPH wrote: Then the next thing they will need to know is the type of socket so type=* (example ... plug_UK ; plug_EU ; USB123 ; USB_C) It is customary in osm to avoid type=*, except for relations. Type of what, i.e. power_socket=* or socket=plug_UK (or, rather, the better values somebody else linked to). -- alv ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. And then is HAS TO BE on opentreetmap.org? A charing app or map is not good enough? __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Well, this discussion could go on forever and I need a tag. For the time being, I'm using the following tagging until something more definite is decided amenity=charging_station fee=no access=public socket:USB=yes socket:typeb=yes motor_vehicle=no There are currently only 7 socket:typeb=* in the world including the 6 I just added and a similar number of socket:USB=* What we decide here will possibly have an influence on future tagging. I believe the tags I used are generic enough to serve that purpose. I added motor_vehicle=no to indicate that motorists shouldn't be using these places to charge a vehicle's batteries. On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 4:42 AM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. And then is HAS TO BE on opentreetmap.org? A charing app or map is not good enough? __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Right, because there is no reasonable middle ground... On 25/05/2015 10:42 PM, Andreas Goss wrote: If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. And then is HAS TO BE on opentreetmap.org? A charing app or map is not good enough? Well then ... a shop app or map should be separated from OSM? What is OSM good for .. only one set of things? __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 25/05/2015 10:42 PM, Andreas Goss wrote: If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. And then is HAS TO BE on opentreetmap.org? A charing app or map is not good enough? Well then ... a shop app or map should be separated from OSM? What is OSM good for .. only one set of things? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
There are two types of big sides (as far as charging is concerned): USB 1/2/3 which we all know, and then there's USB type C - new, reversible - not compatible cable-wise. Also the max. charging current might be useful to know. At 500mA it takes a lng time to charge a tablet - so knowing there's a 2.1A source round the corner is important information! And then there's the Power Delivery specs, which allow for up to 5A @ 20V. Don't know if there are any public charging points with PD but it sure would be useful to know, if you happen to own a device which can use it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_Power_Delivery //colin On 2015-05-24 16:45, Dave Swarthout wrote: Or is is what Todd mentioned (his post came just after I sent mine)? The various small USB connectors, mini-, micro-, etc., are designed for different appliances and vary in size. But the big side is standard. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: @Martin - I'm not aware of any different types of USB socket - are you referring to USB 2.0, and USB 3.0? If so, that can be handled by another tag, e.g. USB:version or USB:type. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 2:40 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/05/2015 7:06 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 23.05.2015 um 20:08 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. I tend to agree but it makes rendering more difficult, maybe we should make indeed a transition to vehicle_charging_station Bit long winded... how about vehicle_charging .. for motor vehicles bicycle_charging .. for bicycles and power_socket .. for power sockets ... the are all different things .. with different appearances and requirements. This would get away from those presently tagged and provide for a clean definition. They could all use the same socket= tag just as they would use the same access, fee tags. Maybe the boaties will have boat_charging too? :-) Just thinking of the future. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [1] -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com [2] -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com [2] ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [2] http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Am 24.05.2015 um 06:18 schrieb Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: @Martin, I think the two words connected with a colon is the best choice. It's already in use: socket:USB=* there're different types of USB sockets so I'd be more specific here cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
@Martin - I'm not aware of any different types of USB socket - are you referring to USB 2.0, and USB 3.0? If so, that can be handled by another tag, e.g. USB:version or USB:type. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 2:40 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/05/2015 7:06 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 23.05.2015 um 20:08 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. I tend to agree but it makes rendering more difficult, maybe we should make indeed a transition to vehicle_charging_station Bit long winded... how about vehicle_charging .. for motor vehicles bicycle_charging .. for bicycles and power_socket .. for power sockets ... the are all different things .. with different appearances and requirements. This would get away from those presently tagged and provide for a clean definition. They could all use the same socket= tag just as they would use the same access, fee tags. Maybe the boaties will have boat_charging too? :-) Just thinking of the future. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Am 23.05.2015 um 20:08 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. I tend to agree but it makes rendering more difficult, maybe we should make indeed a transition to vehicle_charging_station cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On May 24, 2015, at 2:07 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 24.05.2015 um 06:18 schrieb Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: @Martin, I think the two words connected with a colon is the best choice. It's already in use: socket:USB=* there're different types of USB sockets so I'd be more specific here All the ones I’ve seen are the full size socket, it is the device end that seems to vary a lot though it seems many portable devices are now equipped with microUSB sockets. But, like the case with Apple devices, that is not an issue as the user’s USB cord will have the full sized USB plug on one end and the device plug on the other. I don’t think the USB wall socket form factor is an issue (though it might be in the future). However they do come with different power/ampere capacities with ones intended for charging phones putting out between 1 and 1.5 amps while ones intended for charging tablets and larger devices putting out 2 or more amps. It might make a difference to me if I had a tablet to know what the ampere rating was. Cheers, Tod smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 24/05/2015 7:06 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 23.05.2015 um 20:08 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com mailto:pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. I tend to agree but it makes rendering more difficult, maybe we should make indeed a transition to vehicle_charging_station Bit long winded... how about vehicle_charging .. for motor vehicles bicycle_charging .. for bicycles and power_socket .. for power sockets ... the are all different things .. with different appearances and requirements. This would get away from those presently tagged and provide for a clean definition. They could all use the same socket= tag just as they would use the same access, fee tags. Maybe the boaties will have boat_charging too? :-) Just thinking of the future. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Or is is what Todd mentioned (his post came just after I sent mine)? The various small USB connectors, mini-, micro-, etc., are designed for different appliances and vary in size. But the big side is standard. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: @Martin - I'm not aware of any different types of USB socket - are you referring to USB 2.0, and USB 3.0? If so, that can be handled by another tag, e.g. USB:version or USB:type. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 2:40 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/05/2015 7:06 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 23.05.2015 um 20:08 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. I tend to agree but it makes rendering more difficult, maybe we should make indeed a transition to vehicle_charging_station Bit long winded... how about vehicle_charging .. for motor vehicles bicycle_charging .. for bicycles and power_socket .. for power sockets ... the are all different things .. with different appearances and requirements. This would get away from those presently tagged and provide for a clean definition. They could all use the same socket= tag just as they would use the same access, fee tags. Maybe the boaties will have boat_charging too? :-) Just thinking of the future. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Am 24.05.2015 um 17:30 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: I'd have suggested that but the cynic in me state that by the time this becomes popular I wouldn't be surprised you won't be able to charge a Ford in a GM outlet ! (ok, my original thought was more car charging and other elec vehicle charging such as bikes or HGV !) around here they installed some of them, but stating they were popular would indeed be a slight exaggeration, there are 3 about 50m from where I live and I've hardly seen 2 of them occupied at once, but one car charging is not too rare. cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Am 24.05.2015 um 19:43 schrieb Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de: The tag 'amenity' automatically indicates it is for public use and so should not be used to tag every private domestic plug in a home. Mh... no. It doesn't. yes, it does ;-) cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 24 May 2015 at 15:42, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: @Martin - I'm not aware of any different types of USB socket - are you referring to USB 2.0, and USB 3.0? If so, that can be handled by another tag, e.g. USB:version or USB:type. I can think of 5 types Standard flat Standard square +3 small standards - 'square', 'bent 'D'' 'flat'. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
The idea is to get this rendered on the map. My opt is for amenity=power_socket which is what people will be looking for. It will be impossible to have a different symbol to indicate every different type of outlet in the world. Then the next thing they will need to know is the type of socket so type=* (example ... plug_UK ; plug_EU ; USB123 ; USB_C) And it can continue on from there. The tag 'amenity' automatically indicates it is for public use and so should not be used to tag every private domestic plug in a home. On 24 May 2015 at 17:24, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: Bit long winded... how about vehicle_charging .. for motor vehicles bicycle_charging .. for bicycles And then you have this http://www.bike-energy.com/ and that tagging isn't as nice anymore. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
I forgot about USB-C. I don't know when we'll start seeing those but the socket type should be included in our list of possibilities. Agree too about the charging current. Even though quite useful, I suspect that information will be tough to gather. My iPhone was taking so long to charge in the USB outlet at SEATAC I pulled it and used the AC power adapter instead. The USB direct socket was obviously the low amperage type. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 7:04 AM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: There are two types of big sides (as far as charging is concerned): USB 1/2/3 which we all know, and then there's USB type C - new, reversible - not compatible cable-wise. Also the max. charging current might be useful to know. At 500mA it takes a lng time to charge a tablet - so knowing there's a 2.1A source round the corner is important information! And then there's the Power Delivery specs, which allow for up to 5A @ 20V. Don't know if there are any public charging points with PD but it sure would be useful to know, if you happen to own a device which can use it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_Power_Delivery //colin On 2015-05-24 16:45, Dave Swarthout wrote: Or is is what Todd mentioned (his post came just after I sent mine)? The various small USB connectors, mini-, micro-, etc., are designed for different appliances and vary in size. But the big side is standard. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: @Martin - I'm not aware of any different types of USB socket - are you referring to USB 2.0, and USB 3.0? If so, that can be handled by another tag, e.g. USB:version or USB:type. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 2:40 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/05/2015 7:06 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 23.05.2015 um 20:08 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. I tend to agree but it makes rendering more difficult, maybe we should make indeed a transition to vehicle_charging_station Bit long winded... how about vehicle_charging .. for motor vehicles bicycle_charging .. for bicycles and power_socket .. for power sockets ... the are all different things .. with different appearances and requirements. This would get away from those presently tagged and provide for a clean definition. They could all use the same socket= tag just as they would use the same access, fee tags. Maybe the boaties will have boat_charging too? :-) Just thinking of the future. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
The idea is to get this rendered on the map. My opt is for amenity=power_socket which is what people will be looking for. It will be impossible to have a different symbol to indicate every different type of outlet in the world. Then the next thing they will need to know is the type of socket so type=* (example ... plug_UK ; plug_EU ; USB123 ; USB_C) And it can continue on from there. But we don't tag for the map. And especially in this case I don't get why it's so important. Bicycle apps and maps are one of the most commons ones in OpenStreetMap and even maps for charging stations are pretty popular. The tag 'amenity' automatically indicates it is for public use and so should not be used to tag every private domestic plug in a home. Mh... no. It doesn't. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 24 May 2015 at 18:43, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: The idea is to get this rendered on the map. My opt is for amenity=power_socket which is what people will be looking for. It will be impossible to have a different symbol to indicate every different type of outlet in the world. Then the next thing they will need to know is the type of socket so type=* (example ... plug_UK ; plug_EU ; USB123 ; USB_C) And it can continue on from there. But we don't tag for the map. No, we tag for the good of our health. The tag 'amenity' automatically indicates it is for public use and so should not be used to tag every private domestic plug in a home. Mh... no. It doesn't. Access=private would show it's not for the public. power_source=UK240VAC power_source=2barH2O-15mmBST -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 24 May 2015 at 10:06, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 23.05.2015 um 20:08 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. I tend to agree but it makes rendering more difficult, maybe we should make indeed a transition to vehicle_charging_station I'd have suggested that but the cynic in me state that by the time this becomes popular I wouldn't be surprised you won't be able to charge a Ford in a GM outlet ! (ok, my original thought was more car charging and other elec vehicle charging such as bikes or HGV !) -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 25/05/2015 3:43 AM, Andreas Goss wrote: The idea is to get this rendered on the map. My opt is for amenity=power_socket which is what people will be looking for. It will be impossible to have a different symbol to indicate every different type of outlet in the world. Then the next thing they will need to know is the type of socket so type=* (example ... plug_UK ; plug_EU ; USB123 ; USB_C) And it can continue on from there. Use the present existing 'standard' names! e.g. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply for USB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Host_and_device_interface_receptacles I'd think most of the USB public sockets would be USB_A - common on plugpacks (wall warts/bricks etc). But we don't tag for the map. And especially in this case I don't get why it's so important. If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. Bicycle apps and maps are one of the most commons ones in OpenStreetMap and even maps for charging stations are pretty popular. The tag 'amenity' automatically indicates it is for public use and so should not be used to tag every private domestic plug in a home. Mh... no. It doesn't. __ Private parking is tagged .. access=private/members ... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Electric outlets that have a USB-style connector, for charging cell phones and other portable devices, are fairly new. I don't recall seeing any until about a year ago. So, there is not yet a common name for them, to distinguish them from conventional electric outlets that offer only 120V AC. I have seen the USB charging kiosks in airports, but, again, am not aware of a specialized name for them. I charge my phone using a small adapter that plugs into a regular wall outlet or extension cord. On May 23, 2015 3:23:48 PM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. And I reckon for those of you who expressed concern about rendering, that part of it isn't up to me, or us, and will be resolved later. The big question is whether to expand the use of the tag so it includes devices other than vehicles. The article mentions bicycles but doesn't go into detail about bicycle charging_stations except to say There are some different types of charging stations. E-Bikes e.g. can be charged at an domestic wall socket. To my mind, that opens the door to expanding the use of the tag. Asbolutely ! Also the notion of socket:type=USB or socket:USB=* (a number of sockets or yes) seems fine. The other keys mentioned in the Wiki entry can be used just as they are in many other similar situations: fee=* operator=* access=* voltage=* opening_hours=* These stations, or in the case of the Seattle airport, entire sections of seats, have domestic wall sockets offering a way to charge laptops as well as the USB output. The tag socket:nema_5_15=* denoting is bulky to say the least but if that's the established tag for the receptacles found in American homes, then it might work here too. What do 'standard Americans' call their sockets ? We shouldn't be using technical names on OSM unless that's the common name for them. Voltage is a useful bit of data. If we don't do it this way, clearly another amenity tag will be needed. I hate to start down that path because I know it will be difficult to achieve any consensus. In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. Regards Dave -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. I think that's a choice with high long term costs to rendering and processing engines. What will happen is that you're asking rendering and processing software to keep up with a blizzard of subtags. charging_station presently is understood to mean a vehicle charging station, not a generic charging station. Suddenly icons designed for vehicle charging will start appearing inside airports. Similarly: power_supply=cee_17_red power_supply=cee_7_4 power_supply=usb forces rendering to understand a long series of values. For an AC wall plug that means understanding that nema_5_15 sev_1011 and cei_23_16 are all types of AC wall plugs, but that USB is something different. It's asking too much from the maintainers of rendering software. If you're mapping a duck, call it a duck not a creature=thing_with_feathers legs=2 quacking=yes. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 23/05/2015 3:57 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. I think that's a choice with high long term costs to rendering and processing engines. What will happen is that you're asking rendering and processing software to keep up with a blizzard of subtags. charging_station presently is understood to mean a vehicle charging station, not a generic charging station. Suddenly icons designed for vehicle charging will start appearing inside airports. Similarly: power_supply=cee_17_red power_supply=cee_7_4 power_supply=usb forces rendering to understand a long series of values. For an AC wall plug that means understanding that nema_5_15sev_1011 and cei_23_16 are all types of AC wall plugs, but that USB is something different. It's asking too much from the maintainers of rendering software. bbq has the same problem.. electric, wood, gas ... as does building .. school, retail, residential, church, post office ... The rendering 'problem' ? /To render or not .. that is the question? (to misquote Bill). / The data can be added .. rendering is another problem. First the tagging, then the mapping .. then the rendering. They all have their problems. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 17:29:27 +1000 From: Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations Message-ID: 55602c57.1090...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; Format=flowed On 23/05/2015 3:57 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. I think that's a choice with high long term costs to rendering and processing engines. What will happen is that you're asking rendering and processing software to keep up with a blizzard of subtags. charging_station presently is understood to mean a vehicle charging station, not a generic charging station. Suddenly icons designed for vehicle charging will start appearing inside airports. Similarly: power_supply=cee_17_red power_supply=cee_7_4 power_supply=usb forces rendering to understand a long series of values. For an AC wall plug that means understanding that nema_5_15sev_1011 and cei_23_16 are all types of AC wall plugs, but that USB is something different. It's asking too much from the maintainers of rendering software. bbq has the same problem.. electric, wood, gas ... as does building .. school, retail, residential, church, post office ... The rendering 'problem' ? /To render or not .. that is the question? (to misquote Bill). / The data can be added .. rendering is another problem. First the tagging, then the mapping .. then the rendering. They all have their problems. -- next part -- +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. And I reckon for those of you who expressed concern about rendering, that part of it isn't up to me, or us, and will be resolved later. The big question is whether to expand the use of the tag so it includes devices other than vehicles. The article mentions bicycles but doesn't go into detail about bicycle charging_stations except to say There are some different types of charging stations. E-Bikes e.g. can be charged at an domestic wall socket. To my mind, that opens the door to expanding the use of the tag. Also the notion of socket:type=USB or socket:USB=* (a number of sockets or yes) seems fine. The other keys mentioned in the Wiki entry can be used just as they are in many other similar situations: fee=* operator=* access=* voltage=* opening_hours=* These stations, or in the case of the Seattle airport, entire sections of seats, have domestic wall sockets offering a way to charge laptops as well as the USB output. The tag socket:nema_5_15=* denoting is bulky to say the least but if that's the established tag for the receptacles found in American homes, then it might work here too. If we don't do it this way, clearly another amenity tag will be needed. I hate to start down that path because I know it will be difficult to achieve any consensus. In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. Regards Dave On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Mark Bradley ethnicfoodisgr...@gmail.com wrote: Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 17:29:27 +1000 From: Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations Message-ID: 55602c57.1090...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; Format=flowed On 23/05/2015 3:57 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. I think that's a choice with high long term costs to rendering and processing engines. What will happen is that you're asking rendering and processing software to keep up with a blizzard of subtags. charging_station presently is understood to mean a vehicle charging station, not a generic charging station. Suddenly icons designed for vehicle charging will start appearing inside airports. Similarly: power_supply=cee_17_red power_supply=cee_7_4 power_supply=usb forces rendering to understand a long series of values. For an AC wall plug that means understanding that nema_5_15sev_1011 and cei_23_16 are all types of AC wall plugs, but that USB is something different. It's asking too much from the maintainers of rendering software. bbq has the same problem.. electric, wood, gas ... as does building .. school, retail, residential, church, post office ... The rendering 'problem' ? /To render or not .. that is the question? (to misquote Bill). / The data can be added .. rendering is another problem. First the tagging, then the mapping .. then the rendering. They all have their problems. -- next part -- +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 23 May 2015 at 06:57, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: If you're mapping a duck, call it a duck not a creature=thing_with_feathers legs=2 quacking=yes. Surely a duck is an amenity ? After all, it enhances the 'park' experience. Bread_vending=no. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. And I reckon for those of you who expressed concern about rendering, that part of it isn't up to me, or us, and will be resolved later. The big question is whether to expand the use of the tag so it includes devices other than vehicles. The article mentions bicycles but doesn't go into detail about bicycle charging_stations except to say There are some different types of charging stations. E-Bikes e.g. can be charged at an domestic wall socket. To my mind, that opens the door to expanding the use of the tag. Asbolutely ! Also the notion of socket:type=USB or socket:USB=* (a number of sockets or yes) seems fine. The other keys mentioned in the Wiki entry can be used just as they are in many other similar situations: fee=* operator=* access=* voltage=* opening_hours=* These stations, or in the case of the Seattle airport, entire sections of seats, have domestic wall sockets offering a way to charge laptops as well as the USB output. The tag socket:nema_5_15=* denoting is bulky to say the least but if that's the established tag for the receptacles found in American homes, then it might work here too. What do 'standard Americans' call their sockets ? We shouldn't be using technical names on OSM unless that's the common name for them. Voltage is a useful bit of data. If we don't do it this way, clearly another amenity tag will be needed. I hate to start down that path because I know it will be difficult to achieve any consensus. In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. Regards Dave -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Am 23.05.2015 um 01:56 schrieb Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: amenity=device_charging_station socket:ac=2 socket:usb=4 (there are two types Android and Apple, but I gloss over that) socket:apple_30_pin=4 or man_made / amenity=power_outlet socket_type=usb_a socket_count=4 cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
New, yes, but increasingly common. One of my recent flights was on a 777 equipped with both electric (115 v American standard) and USB outlets. While many of those chargers you speak of John, the iPhone chargers for example, plug into a wall socket the output goes to the phone via the USB socket at the rear. @Martin, I think the two words connected with a colon is the best choice. It's already in use: socket:USB=* The standard American plug has a hard-to-remember and bulky tag socket:nema_5_15=2. It would be nice to have a simpler alternative. But then, most countries have their own scheme for naming these things and I don't see standardization coming to the world (or to OSM) anytime soon. Hell, we're still using inches and pounds over here! We probably should stick with what's already defined in the wiki. Still, if I saw a charging station advertising 120v AC, I would be quite sure what that was, and also what sort of socket it would employ. The voltage tag would be an obvious clue for data consumers. On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 2:17 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Electric outlets that have a USB-style connector, for charging cell phones and other portable devices, are fairly new. I don't recall seeing any until about a year ago. So, there is not yet a common name for them, to distinguish them from conventional electric outlets that offer only 120V AC. I have seen the USB charging kiosks in airports, but, again, am not aware of a specialized name for them. I charge my phone using a small adapter that plugs into a regular wall outlet or extension cord. On May 23, 2015 3:23:48 PM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 23 May 2015 at 17:47, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiki article clearly teaches that the amenity=charging_station tag was designed with vehicles in mind. Well if it's a VEHICLE charging station, it should have said that. They didn't specify what changing it was in the name - so it's surely open for all charging stations. And I reckon for those of you who expressed concern about rendering, that part of it isn't up to me, or us, and will be resolved later. The big question is whether to expand the use of the tag so it includes devices other than vehicles. The article mentions bicycles but doesn't go into detail about bicycle charging_stations except to say There are some different types of charging stations. E-Bikes e.g. can be charged at an domestic wall socket. To my mind, that opens the door to expanding the use of the tag. Asbolutely ! Also the notion of socket:type=USB or socket:USB=* (a number of sockets or yes) seems fine. The other keys mentioned in the Wiki entry can be used just as they are in many other similar situations: fee=* operator=* access=* voltage=* opening_hours=* These stations, or in the case of the Seattle airport, entire sections of seats, have domestic wall sockets offering a way to charge laptops as well as the USB output. The tag socket:nema_5_15=* denoting is bulky to say the least but if that's the established tag for the receptacles found in American homes, then it might work here too. What do 'standard Americans' call their sockets ? We shouldn't be using technical names on OSM unless that's the common name for them. Voltage is a useful bit of data. If we don't do it this way, clearly another amenity tag will be needed. I hate to start down that path because I know it will be difficult to achieve any consensus. In the meantime I have tagged those areas with amenity=charging_station until we resolve this question. Regards Dave -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 23 May 2015 at 00:19, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sitting in the Seattle airport trying to figure out how to tag areas that offer a power outlet and USB outlets for charging or powering computers and other devices. There are many of them here at SEA and they are important places for travelers to know about. I tagged a few of them with amenity=charging_station until I realized that those charging_stations are for vehicles. Ideas? Prexisting tags? Dave (Sleepless in Seattle) -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com A charging station is a place for charging something. With recent discussions on amenity, Why not use charging_station=USB charging_station=EV charging_station=110VAC charging_station=240VAC etc. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Duck tagging it's not. One could consider the horrors of tagging: *amenity=charging_stationvoltage=5socket:usb=4* From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station But I think that's just as bad an idea as amenity=fuel;vehicle=no. Better: *amenity=device_charging_station* *socket:nema_5_15=2* *socket:USB=4* I don't care that amenity is overloaded. This is an amenity. And even better: *amenity=device_charging_station* *socket:ac=2* *socket:usb=4 * (there are two types Android and Apple, but I gloss over that) *socket:apple_30_pin=4* And someone who cares can invent subtypes for ac like sev_1011, or worse set something for multi standard sockets: http://fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/MultiSockets.html And subtypes for USB, as there are at least three types of charging port, and a a dozen types overall. These days world voltage adapters are all one can buy: the 110V vs. 220V debate is over. So no voltage tag needed. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 23/05/2015 9:56 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Duck tagging it's not. One could consider the horrors of tagging: *amenity=charging_station voltage=5 socket:usb=4* From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station But I think that's just as bad an idea as amenity=fuel;vehicle=no. Better: *amenity=device_charging_station* *socket:nema_5_15=2 * *socket:USB=4* I don't care that amenity is overloaded. This is an amenity. And even better: *amenity=device_charging_station* *socket:ac=2* *socket:usb=4 * (there are two types Android and Apple, but I gloss over that) *socket:apple_30_pin=4* And someone who cares can invent subtypes for ac like sev_1011, or worse set something for multi standard sockets: http://fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/MultiSockets.html http://fam-oud.nl/%7Eplugsocket/MultiSockets.html And there is this ... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply power_supply=nema_5_15 for usa... There is no USB one there (yet) ..usb_typea, usb_typeb etc... ? it is not a proposal as yet .. but does not identify it self as vehicle related. Charging points are avlible in some libraries too .. Might be time to move thetag power_supply= to a proposal. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
I'm sitting in the Seattle airport trying to figure out how to tag areas that offer a power outlet and USB outlets for charging or powering computers and other devices. There are many of them here at SEA and they are important places for travelers to know about. I tagged a few of them with amenity=charging_station until I realized that those charging_stations are for vehicles. Ideas? Prexisting tags? Dave (Sleepless in Seattle) -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm typing on an iPhone so will respond fully after I reach my final destination. amenity=charging_station with subtags for clarification seems to fill the bill. On Friday, May 22, 2015, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/05/2015 9:56 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Duck tagging it's not. One could consider the horrors of tagging: *amenity=charging_station voltage=5 socket:usb=4* From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station But I think that's just as bad an idea as amenity=fuel;vehicle=no. Better: *amenity=device_charging_station* *socket:nema_5_15=2 * *socket:USB=4* I don't care that amenity is overloaded. This is an amenity. And even better: *amenity=device_charging_station* *socket:ac=2* *socket:usb=4 * (there are two types Android and Apple, but I gloss over that) *socket:apple_30_pin=4* And someone who cares can invent subtypes for ac like sev_1011, or worse set something for multi standard sockets: http://fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/MultiSockets.html And there is this ... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply power_supply=nema_5_15 for usa... There is no USB one there (yet) ..usb_typea, usb_typeb etc... ? it is not a proposal as yet .. but does not identify it self as vehicle related. Charging points are avlible in some libraries too .. Might be time to move the tag power_supply= to a proposal. -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging