Re: [Tagging] Bus route relations. Forward/backward tag
Can you send links to the route relations? (Ctrl-Shft-h of Ctrl-Shift-i in JOSM, then copy/paste the url). That rendering with all the red lines is not the best way to represent PT. Jo 2015-03-04 12:55 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson : > On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Éric Gillet > wrote: > >> 2015-02-16 13:03 GMT+01:00 fly : >> >>> There are still cases where forward/backward are useful with P2-routes. >>> E.g. a route with a loop and some members used twice but different >>> directions. >>> >> >> Shouldn't one just duplicate the stop_positions in the relation, and add >> ways twice in order, without roles ? >> >> Also, as Jo said, the public transport v2 scheme is cleaner as each >> variant of the route have its own relation, making loops in routes a rare >> case. >> > > You say that, but take a look at routes 108, 222CC, 222CW, 306, and TDT in > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/36.1501/-95.9415&layers=T . This is > a problem, a lot of transit systems have equally bizarre routes, > particularly when systems are underdeveloped and overstretched like this > one. Would be nice if we had a tagging scheme that didn't think of routes > as purely linear, or tools that could handle linear objects rationally. > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bus route relations. Forward/backward tag
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Éric Gillet wrote: > 2015-02-16 13:03 GMT+01:00 fly : > >> There are still cases where forward/backward are useful with P2-routes. >> E.g. a route with a loop and some members used twice but different >> directions. >> > > Shouldn't one just duplicate the stop_positions in the relation, and add > ways twice in order, without roles ? > > Also, as Jo said, the public transport v2 scheme is cleaner as each > variant of the route have its own relation, making loops in routes a rare > case. > You say that, but take a look at routes 108, 222CC, 222CW, 306, and TDT in http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/36.1501/-95.9415&layers=T . This is a problem, a lot of transit systems have equally bizarre routes, particularly when systems are underdeveloped and overstretched like this one. Would be nice if we had a tagging scheme that didn't think of routes as purely linear, or tools that could handle linear objects rationally. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bus route relations. Forward/backward tag
Loops and spoons are still quite common, even when each variation gets its own route relation to describe which ways are used from beginning to end. What is better in v2 is that the way to describe each of the variations, is completely unambiguous. To me they are easier to fix when they get broken. Or at least it's easier to notice that they are broken and where, as long as the ways are ordered. Jo 2015-02-16 18:58 GMT+01:00 Éric Gillet : > 2015-02-16 13:03 GMT+01:00 fly : > >> There are still cases where forward/backward are useful with P2-routes. >> E.g. a route with a loop and some members used twice but different >> directions. >> > > Shouldn't one just duplicate the stop_positions in the relation, and add > ways twice in order, without roles ? > > Also, as Jo said, the public transport v2 scheme is cleaner as each > variant of the route have its own relation, making loops in routes a rare > case. > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bus route relations. Forward/backward tag
2015-02-16 13:03 GMT+01:00 fly : > There are still cases where forward/backward are useful with P2-routes. > E.g. a route with a loop and some members used twice but different > directions. > Shouldn't one just duplicate the stop_positions in the relation, and add ways twice in order, without roles ? Also, as Jo said, the public transport v2 scheme is cleaner as each variant of the route have its own relation, making loops in routes a rare case. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bus route relations. Forward/backward tag
Yes, I'm reconsidering my POV. It will probably make sorting the members automatically a lot easier than it is atm. /me is off to go and convert some route relations... :-) (Helped by a script ofc, doing it manually is a chore. So I'll adapt the script and let you know when it's ready to be used.) Jo 2015-02-16 13:03 GMT+01:00 fly : > There are still cases where forward/backward are useful with P2-routes. > E.g. a route with a loop and some members used twice but different > directions. > > Personally, I still use forward/backward on any member of a route which > is only used in one direction and for all P2-routes as it makes it much > easier to get the direction of the route with incomplete data. > > cu fly > > Am 16.02.2015 um 08:40 schrieb Jo: > > On the one hand I'm not adding roles to the ways in PT routes relations > > anymore, instead I add all the ways in the correct order. Some ways are > > included twice. > > > > But if you prefer to add them, you have to know forward/backward relates > to > > the direction of the way itself. If it follows the arrow: forward, if it > > goes against it: backward. If you do it right, JOSM is able to sort your > > ways automatically. > > > > If you're still on the v1 scheme, where there is only one route relations > > doing a futile attempt to describe all variations, I suggest you switch > to > > the new scheme where a route_master describes the line and route > relations > > describe each variation from beginning to end. > > > > > > This is how we do it in Belgium: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Polyglot/diary/28401 > > > > There are some links to Youtube videos included in that article. > > > > 2015-02-16 5:52 GMT+01:00 Hans De Kryger : > > > >> Me and a fellow mapper are adding bus routes to are city and are > confused > >> about > >> the Forward/backward tag you use on relations. I think I'm using it > >> right yet every time i check ÖPNVKarte, it shows the route going the > >> opposite way in which i intended. Just looking for any help i can get. > I'm > >> quite confused on the usage of the tag especially the use of it on a two > >> way street. Which way is forward and which way is backward. Thanks in > >> advance. > >> > >> ÖPNVKarte > >> - ( > >> http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/ > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bus route relations. Forward/backward tag
There are still cases where forward/backward are useful with P2-routes. E.g. a route with a loop and some members used twice but different directions. Personally, I still use forward/backward on any member of a route which is only used in one direction and for all P2-routes as it makes it much easier to get the direction of the route with incomplete data. cu fly Am 16.02.2015 um 08:40 schrieb Jo: > On the one hand I'm not adding roles to the ways in PT routes relations > anymore, instead I add all the ways in the correct order. Some ways are > included twice. > > But if you prefer to add them, you have to know forward/backward relates to > the direction of the way itself. If it follows the arrow: forward, if it > goes against it: backward. If you do it right, JOSM is able to sort your > ways automatically. > > If you're still on the v1 scheme, where there is only one route relations > doing a futile attempt to describe all variations, I suggest you switch to > the new scheme where a route_master describes the line and route relations > describe each variation from beginning to end. > > > This is how we do it in Belgium: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Polyglot/diary/28401 > > There are some links to Youtube videos included in that article. > > 2015-02-16 5:52 GMT+01:00 Hans De Kryger : > >> Me and a fellow mapper are adding bus routes to are city and are confused >> about >> the Forward/backward tag you use on relations. I think I'm using it >> right yet every time i check ÖPNVKarte, it shows the route going the >> opposite way in which i intended. Just looking for any help i can get. I'm >> quite confused on the usage of the tag especially the use of it on a two >> way street. Which way is forward and which way is backward. Thanks in >> advance. >> >> ÖPNVKarte >> - ( >> http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bus route relations. Forward/backward tag
On the one hand I'm not adding roles to the ways in PT routes relations anymore, instead I add all the ways in the correct order. Some ways are included twice. But if you prefer to add them, you have to know forward/backward relates to the direction of the way itself. If it follows the arrow: forward, if it goes against it: backward. If you do it right, JOSM is able to sort your ways automatically. If you're still on the v1 scheme, where there is only one route relations doing a futile attempt to describe all variations, I suggest you switch to the new scheme where a route_master describes the line and route relations describe each variation from beginning to end. This is how we do it in Belgium: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Polyglot/diary/28401 There are some links to Youtube videos included in that article. Jo 2015-02-16 5:52 GMT+01:00 Hans De Kryger : > Me and a fellow mapper are adding bus routes to are city and are confused > about > the Forward/backward tag you use on relations. I think I'm using it > right yet every time i check ÖPNVKarte, it shows the route going the > opposite way in which i intended. Just looking for any help i can get. I'm > quite confused on the usage of the tag especially the use of it on a two > way street. Which way is forward and which way is backward. Thanks in > advance. > > ÖPNVKarte > - ( > http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/ > ) > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Bus route relations. Forward/backward tag
Me and a fellow mapper are adding bus routes to are city and are confused about the Forward/backward tag you use on relations. I think I'm using it right yet every time i check ÖPNVKarte, it shows the route going the opposite way in which i intended. Just looking for any help i can get. I'm quite confused on the usage of the tag especially the use of it on a two way street. Which way is forward and which way is backward. Thanks in advance. ÖPNVKarte - ( http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/ ) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
