Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Richard Welty 
wrote:

> the issue, i think is that frequently there are highways that have raised
> concrete barriers, but with frequent gaps. you end up needing to model
> this one way or another. there is not really an easy way out.
>

True. Center kerbs are often for short distances to prevent left turns. The
connecting streets could just be tagged with a no left turn.

There doesn't seem to be interest in creating a tag kerb=center so one of
the alternative will have to be the default. When I get some free time I'll
try to add something to the wiki to help other mappers with center kerbs
and barriers.

Clifford


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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Richard Welty]

On 6/25/15 11:52 AM, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 8:44 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> but this would only work on a road with no crossings (or all
> crossing on both roads at the same spot)...
>
>
> Marin,
> I must be a little slow this morning, please elaborate. 
>
the issue, i think is that frequently there are highways that have raised
concrete barriers, but with frequent gaps. you end up needing to model
this one way or another. there is not really an easy way out.

richard

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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 8:44 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
> but this would only work on a road with no crossings (or all crossing on
> both roads at the same spot)...


Marin,
I must be a little slow this morning, please elaborate.


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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-06-25 17:38 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow :

> Going with the theme of lazy wins out, having to convert a way into a dual
> carriageway is a pain. That is why using the tag kerb=center would 1) tell
> routing engines that left turns are not permitted and 2) possibly render
> more accurately.



but this would only work on a road with no crossings (or all crossing on
both roads at the same spot)...

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Clifford Snow]

Going with the theme of lazy wins out, having to convert a way into a dual
carriageway is a pain. That is why using the tag kerb=center would 1) tell
routing engines that left turns are not permitted and 2) possibly render
more accurately. Dual carriageways renders [1] as if there is median when
in fact it is only a kerb. This process could be expanded to include Jersey
barriers.

An alternative could be barrier=center/left/right,
barrier=kerb/Jersey_barrier

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/48.43575/-122.33675

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 5:35 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:42 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer <
> dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 2015-06-23 1:58 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow :
>>
>>> I have a question about how to tag concrete kerbs that prevent vehicles
>>> from crossing. Below are links to two different examples. Creating a dual
>>> carriageway doesn't seem correct. Turn restrictions would help vehicles
>>> routing, but that doesn't tell emergency vehicles that they can drive over
>>> the kerb if necessary.  Would adding a tag, kerb=center, be the best method
>>> of tagging these highways?
>>>
>>> How do you tag these features?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd map them as dual carriageway. If you want to go into details you
>> could use the area relation (type=area) and add barrier tags for the
>> dividing kerb (implicit) or draw the kerb and add it as barrier object
>> (explicit). This relation type is currently not evaluated AFAIK.
>>
>
> Being lazy and not having anything that'll do AutoCAD-like fillets and
> chamfers (seriously, how do we still not have shape tools beyond (and even
> then, JOSM only) basic rectangles and diameter-defined circles anywhere?),
> I'd be strongly inclined to just draw the kerb between the two lane=1
> carriageways.
>
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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:42 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
> 2015-06-23 1:58 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow :
>
>> I have a question about how to tag concrete kerbs that prevent vehicles
>> from crossing. Below are links to two different examples. Creating a dual
>> carriageway doesn't seem correct. Turn restrictions would help vehicles
>> routing, but that doesn't tell emergency vehicles that they can drive over
>> the kerb if necessary.  Would adding a tag, kerb=center, be the best method
>> of tagging these highways?
>>
>> How do you tag these features?
>>
>
>
>
>
> I'd map them as dual carriageway. If you want to go into details you could
> use the area relation (type=area) and add barrier tags for the dividing
> kerb (implicit) or draw the kerb and add it as barrier object (explicit).
> This relation type is currently not evaluated AFAIK.
>

Being lazy and not having anything that'll do AutoCAD-like fillets and
chamfers (seriously, how do we still not have shape tools beyond (and even
then, JOSM only) basic rectangles and diameter-defined circles anywhere?),
I'd be strongly inclined to just draw the kerb between the two lane=1
carriageways.
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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-06-23 1:58 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow :

> I have a question about how to tag concrete kerbs that prevent vehicles
> from crossing. Below are links to two different examples. Creating a dual
> carriageway doesn't seem correct. Turn restrictions would help vehicles
> routing, but that doesn't tell emergency vehicles that they can drive over
> the kerb if necessary.  Would adding a tag, kerb=center, be the best method
> of tagging these highways?
>
> How do you tag these features?
>




I'd map them as dual carriageway. If you want to go into details you could
use the area relation (type=area) and add barrier tags for the dividing
kerb (implicit) or draw the kerb and add it as barrier object (explicit).
This relation type is currently not evaluated AFAIK.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Paul Johnson]

That'd count as a median in my book.  Separate ways for either side of it.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> Try this link https://goo.gl/photos/3tyt92t4fdVVw3mN9
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Shawn K. Quinn 
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2015-06-22 at 16:58 -0700, Clifford Snow wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN7JZ5SUnvtE-lBS9isblsmQQ2NEbjKq9Wxldyo
>> >
>> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOvKFy5lPRf85fW77Kgt4feBHKxLJk54bgL11MA
>> >
>> Both of these are 404 as of a minute or so ago.
>>
>> --
>> Shawn K. Quinn 
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[johnw]

Many tollways in rural Japan are 1/2 of the planned tollway road - they run the 
traffic on the completed side in both directions, one lane for each direction. 
The seperation is jsut a tiny little concrete kerb nailed into the road. almost 
any car could jump it really easily, as it is 20cm high. 

They are still considered separate roads. 

If they feel it is important enough to separate road traffic in a public road, 
then create two one-way roads. if there is special crossing for emergency 
vehicles (sloped kerb in a special spot), then you can put a service road 
connecting the two one way roads and mark it access=emergency. 

almost any truck or SUV can already drive over a kerb and some medians without 
damage if done with care, so it is the intent of the kerb that is mapped - 
splitting the road - IMHO. 

Javbw

> On Jun 23, 2015, at 8:58 AM, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> 
> I have a question about how to tag concrete kerbs that prevent vehicles from 
> crossing. Below are links to two different examples. Creating a dual 
> carriageway doesn't seem correct. Turn restrictions would help vehicles 
> routing, but that doesn't tell emergency vehicles that they can drive over 
> the kerb if necessary.  Would adding a tag, kerb=center, be the best method 
> of tagging these highways? 
> 
> How do you tag these features?
> 
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN7JZ5SUnvtE-lBS9isblsmQQ2NEbjKq9Wxldyo 
> 
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOvKFy5lPRf85fW77Kgt4feBHKxLJk54bgL11MA 
> 
> 
> Clifford
> 
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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Clifford Snow]

Try this link https://goo.gl/photos/3tyt92t4fdVVw3mN9


On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Shawn K. Quinn 
wrote:

> On Mon, 2015-06-22 at 16:58 -0700, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> >
> >
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN7JZ5SUnvtE-lBS9isblsmQQ2NEbjKq9Wxldyo
> >
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOvKFy5lPRf85fW77Kgt4feBHKxLJk54bgL11MA
> >
> Both of these are 404 as of a minute or so ago.
>
> --
> Shawn K. Quinn 
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On Mon, 2015-06-22 at 16:58 -0700, Clifford Snow wrote:

> 
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN7JZ5SUnvtE-lBS9isblsmQQ2NEbjKq9Wxldyo
> https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOvKFy5lPRf85fW77Kgt4feBHKxLJk54bgL11MA
> 
Both of these are 404 as of a minute or so ago.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 


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[Tagging] Concrete kerbs in highway

[Clifford Snow]

I have a question about how to tag concrete kerbs that prevent vehicles
from crossing. Below are links to two different examples. Creating a dual
carriageway doesn't seem correct. Turn restrictions would help vehicles
routing, but that doesn't tell emergency vehicles that they can drive over
the kerb if necessary.  Would adding a tag, kerb=center, be the best method
of tagging these highways?

How do you tag these features?

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN7JZ5SUnvtE-lBS9isblsmQQ2NEbjKq9Wxldyo
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOvKFy5lPRf85fW77Kgt4feBHKxLJk54bgL11MA

Clifford

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