Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Following discussions, voting has been postponed until the military=bases
proposal is decided, so this has been returned to Under Way only.

Thanks

Graeme


On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 13:26, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 12:21, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue
>>
>
> Voting is now open.
>
> If you still have any comments or concern, please raise them for
> discussion, rather than just voting "No, because ..."!
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 12:21, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue
>

Voting is now open.

If you still have any comments or concern, please raise them for
discussion, rather than just voting "No, because ..."!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks

Graeme


On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 12:21, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> Please visit https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue & have a
> look.
>

This proposal (which is partly linked to both the Rescue Services &
Military Bases proposals) is also close to moving to voting.

Precis:

*Deprecated*:

   - emergency =
   coast_guard
   
   - amenity =coast_guard
   

*Add*:

   - military =coast_guard
   

   - emergency =
   marine_rescue
   


 So far, comments appear positive, but if there is anything you would like
to add, please mention it either here or on the Talk page.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 at 15:01, Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> Please be aware of a couple of other existing tags:
>

Thanks.

Yes I am aware of all those & made reference to the lifeguard tags in the
discussion about the Rescue Stations proposal: "The existing lifeguard
classifications could either remain as they are, or all be moved to this
key as rescue=water_rescue" (which looks like it would now be
emergency=water_rescue)

>From a previous (failed) attempt to clean up the various lifeguard
listings, I believe a water_rescue_station is the German equivalent of a
lifeguard, not a marine rescue unit ie they worry about swimmers, not
vessels at sea?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Joseph Eisenberg]

Please be aware of a couple of other existing tags:

emergency=water_rescure_station - used 300 times and documented -
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dwater_rescue_station

emergency=lifeguard_base - used over 300 times -
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dlifeguard_base

Also emergence=lifeguard_tower, emergency=lifeguard_platform,
emergency=lifeguard are all documented -
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dlifeguard

-- Joseph Eisenberg
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks everybody for positive comments!

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 20:40, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
> But maybe  (or amenity=marine_recsue) would be better
> than a brand new key rescue in rescue=marine_rescue tag?
>

I've been wondering about that overnight?

I was working on emergency=rescue_stations + rescue=marine_rescue, but
maybe just keeping the various types of station together under the Rescue
Stations heading, but tagged as emergency=marine_rescue would be neater?

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 23:43, Paul Allen  wrote:

>
> The one thing I would avoid is tagging it as an amenity.
>

Definitely!

Which is why I also suggested changing amenity=fire_station to emergency=

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 at 01:38, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> it makes it look a either military or rescue decision, but many coast
> guards will be seen as part of the police or border patrol, rather than
> military.
>

Yes, & the same as everything, there will always be edge cases, which is
why I defined "Armed" Coast Guard as also defending against eg smugglers &
terrorists, not necessarily fighting a war.

E.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Federal_Coast_Guard
>

 Working on the concept that the crews are armed, even if it is only with
pistols, then I would list them under military=coast_guard.

Naturally, this will be open to input from people in each country who can
say yes / no.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am So., 6. Dez. 2020 um 17:01 Uhr schrieb Brian M. Sperlongano <
zelonew...@gmail.com>:

> This is probably a US-centric viewpoint, but I note that there is a
> general lack of tagging under the military= key to indicate the military
> branch associated with a military base.
>


yes, a documented way to distinguish "finer" details are missing not only
for military branches, the same holds true for police branches and other
law enforcement and border / tax etc. control.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

Yes, and while we're at it, let's throw in multinational bases as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Air_Base_Geilenkirchen


On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 11:17 AM Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 16:01, Brian M. Sperlongano 
> wrote:
>
>> This is probably a US-centric viewpoint, but I note that there is a
>> general lack of tagging under the military= key to indicate the military
>> branch associated with a military base.
>>
>
> Branch or branches.   There are an increasing number of joint bases.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_base
>
> --
> Paul
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Paul Allen]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 16:01, Brian M. Sperlongano 
wrote:

> This is probably a US-centric viewpoint, but I note that there is a
> general lack of tagging under the military= key to indicate the military
> branch associated with a military base.
>

Branch or branches.   There are an increasing number of joint bases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_base

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

This is probably a US-centric viewpoint, but I note that there is a general
lack of tagging under the military= key to indicate the military branch
associated with a military base.  For example, we have military=naval_base,
but no equivalent tagging for army, air force, amphibious, (dare I say
space force?) bases.  In places where the coast guard IS part of the
military, tagging it under landuse=military + military=* is appropriate.
However, I also support the need to tag coast guard areas in places where
they are considered non-military and thus landuse=military would not be
appropriate.

On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 10:38 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> On 6. Dec 2020, at 03:23, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
> Please visit https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue & have a
> look.
>
> All comments welcome either here or on the Talk page.
>
>
>
> it makes it look a either military or rescue decision, but many coast
> guards will be seen as part of the police or border patrol, rather than
> military.
>
> E.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Federal_Coast_Guard
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Police_(Germany)
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_of_the_Port_Captaincies_–_Coast_Guard
>
> Cheers Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 6. Dec 2020, at 03:23, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
> Please visit https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue & have a look.
> 
> All comments welcome either here or on the Talk page.


it makes it look a either military or rescue decision, but many coast guards 
will be seen as part of the police or border patrol, rather than military. 

E.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Federal_Coast_Guard

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Police_(Germany)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_of_the_Port_Captaincies_–_Coast_Guard

Cheers Martin 

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Paul Allen]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 10:40, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
> But maybe emergency=marine_rescue (or amenity=marine_recsue) would be
> better
> than a brand new key rescue in rescue=marine_rescue tag?
>

I can see both ways.  With emergency=rescue_station you have the
possibility of rescue=marine (not marine_rescue, because that is
needless duplication) and rescue=mountain and whatever else has
rescue stations.  OTOH, emergency=marine_rescue works and
is simpler.

The one thing I would avoid is tagging it as an amenity.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Thanks for creating a proposal that would solve problems with the current 
tagging!

I like it - and military force that also is tasked with search & rescue can
be also tagged with combination of this two new tags.

Disclaimer: I know nearly nothing about this topic.

But maybe emergency=marine_rescue (or amenity=marine_recsue) would be better
than a brand new key rescue in rescue=marine_rescue tag?

Dec 6, 2020, 03:21 by graemefi...@gmail.com:

> Following on from > 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-November/056482.html> 
> , I've also put together a proposal to make some changes to the existing 
> Coast Guard pages.
>
> Please visit > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue>  & have a 
> look.
>
> All comments welcome either here or on the Talk page.
>
> (& as I just said, these are my first actual proposals, so please be gentle!)
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>

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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

 Following on from
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-November/056482.html,
I've also put together a proposal to make some changes to the existing
Coast Guard pages.

Please visit https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue & have a
look.

All comments welcome either here or on the Talk page.

(& as I just said, these are my first actual proposals, so please be
gentle!)

Thanks

Graeme
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