Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2016-06-30 11:03 GMT+02:00 Michael Tsang : > I live in Hong Kong and the legal framework is below: > > The learner licence is legally required for a learner to learn to drive on > the > road (because driving without a licence is an offence). Once a learner has > got > the

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-30 Thread Michael Tsang
On Wednesday 29 June 2016 16:55:08 jeffrey.rho...@geogr.uni-giessen.de wrote: > > So even countries that have some kind of learner license don't necessarily > have any restrictions on roads concerning them, hence I think the tag as a > general tag would be problematic, since it could cause

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-29 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > Il giorno 29 giu 2016, alle ore 14:43, Paul Johnson ha > scritto: > > Ostensibly to do the same thing... just that it's a normal car and unlike the German instructor he wouldn't have pedals on his side, so breaking while seated on the passenger

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-29 Thread Jeffrey . Rhodes
‎To be more precise:‎In Germany you can get an under aged 'learner' license when 17, but the only restriction for that is you have to have a previously registered driver with you when driving. However, those

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-29 Thread Paul Johnson
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 4:58 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > Il giorno 28 giu 2016, alle ore 15:19, > jeffrey.rho...@geogr.uni-giessen.de ha scritto: > > > > In fact, in Germany you even have to have at least 2*45minutes driving > practice

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-29 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > Il giorno 28 giu 2016, alle ore 15:19, jeffrey.rho...@geogr.uni-giessen.de ha > scritto: > > In fact, in Germany you even have to have at least 2*45minutes driving > practice with your instructor before you can even get a license Yes, but that's a bit different because

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Kieron Thwaites
On 28 June 2016 at 13:52, Michael Tsang wrote: > > I agree on the point that mode:learner_driver=* is better, but, however, isn't > it common sense that learners are not allowed on motorways? Can you give me > some regions where learners are, by default, allowed on motorways?

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Michael Tsang
On Tuesday 28 June 2016 14:59:18 Colin Smale wrote: > It's not a question of common sense, it's a question of law... Countries and > states may differ, but they will all have a default plus a way of > indicating any exceptions. In OSM we tend to omit values that are default; > however there is

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Greg Troxel
Andy Townsend writes: > In OSM whenever there's been a choice between "making things harder > for routers/renderers" or "making things harder for mappers" it's the > former that tends to be chosen, because map consumers can at least > automate what they do, and new mappers

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Colin Smale writes: > > > It's not a question of common sense, it's a question of > > law... > > Agreed. I was just refuting the notion of "there should be one > international default". > > >

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Andy Townsend
On 28/06/2016 14:30, Greg Troxel wrote: True, but in OSM it's currently at best awkward to have a complicated set of defaults, because then that information has to be encoded into all renderers and routers. We either need to have a single global default or to have some machine-readable

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Michael Tsang writes: > > > I agree on the point that mode:learner_driver=* is better, but, however, > isn't > > it common sense that learners are not allowed on motorways? Can you give > me > > some

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Tom Pfeifer
The bottom line for me is, there are too many different laws, too many different license types, too many different vehicles, too many different defaults, ... thus a simple tag as originally proposed cannot work. tom ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Greg Troxel
Colin Smale writes: > It's not a question of common sense, it's a question of > law... Agreed. I was just refuting the notion of "there should be one international default". > Countries and states may differ, but they will all have a > default plus a way of indicating

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 6:52 AM, Michael Tsang wrote: > On Tuesday 28 June 2016 04:12:37 Paul Johnson wrote: > > > > > I can see this as potentially useful, except for one part: > > > > For values, see access >=*. > > > > > The

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Jeffrey . Rhodes
‎I know that in plenty of European countries learners are allowed on Motorways, just like any other kind of street. In fact, in Germany you even have to have at least 2*45minutes driving practice with your instructor before you can even get a license. Jeffrey   Originalnachricht   Von:

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Colin Smale
It's not a question of common sense, it's a question of law... Countries and states may differ, but they will all have a default plus a way of indicating any exceptions. In OSM we tend to omit values that are default; however there is always a way to make the default explicit if one requires.

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Greg Troxel
Michael Tsang writes: > I agree on the point that mode:learner_driver=* is better, but, however, > isn't > it common sense that learners are not allowed on motorways? Can you give me > some regions where learners are, by default, allowed on motorways? I don't think it's

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Michael Tsang
On Tuesday 28 June 2016 04:12:37 Paul Johnson wrote: > > I can see this as potentially useful, except for one part: > > For values, see access =*. > > > The default is learner_driver > > =yes

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-28 Thread Paul Johnson
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Michael Tsang wrote: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/learner_driver > > The proposed feature *learner driver* is to tag the legal access of a > highway by a vehicle driven by a learner driver. It is similar to >

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Greg Troxel
Michael Tsang writes: >> And, it would be good to first thing about how access rights for learner >> drivers differs from regular drivers. I can't think of any difference >> around me (although learners are required to have an adult real driver >> with them, and not

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Colin Smale
On 2016-06-24 11:47, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2016-06-24 11:20 GMT+02:00 Colin Smale : > >> In OSM there has always been "space" to add new detail. What one person >> finds a ridiculous level of micro-mapping, someone else may consider >> valuable data. For example,

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2016-06-24 11:20 GMT+02:00 Colin Smale : > In OSM there has always been "space" to add new detail. What one person > finds a ridiculous level of micro-mapping, someone else may consider > valuable data. For example, I as a cyclist am not bothered about > maxheight=* but

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Tom Pfeifer
Colin Smale wrote on 2016/06/24 11:20: In OSM there has always been "space" to add new detail. Yes, but as Martin pointed out, such restriction is more bound to the user of the road then the road itself. It varies among different classes of such users. The default values are different from

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Colin Smale
On 2016-06-24 10:29, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > so the idea is to tag all motorways with the no tag in the UK, and there are > no exceptions to this rule possible (e.g. by putting up traffic signs > "learners allowed")? > > In Italy there is a rule (likely elsewhere as well), that the

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Philip Barnes
On Fri Jun 24 08:57:39 2016 GMT+0100, Colin Smale wrote: > On 2016-06-24 09:42, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > >> Il giorno 24 giu 2016, alle ore 08:24, Michael Tsang > >> ha scritto: > >> > >> Learners can drive on most roads, therefore,

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > Il giorno 24 giu 2016, alle ore 09:57, Colin Smale ha > scritto: > > In the UK learners are not allowed on motorways. That also includes for > example non-learner car drivers on a motorcycle without a motorcyle licence, > who have to display

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Mark Wagner
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:00:13 +0800 Michael Tsang wrote: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/learner_driver > > The proposed feature learner driver is to tag the legal access of a > highway by a vehicle driven by a learner driver. It is similar to >

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Anders Fougner
Off topic: In my opinion, that's how *all* access tags should have been. It's incredibly many who don't know that bicycle=yes/no/whatever is an access tag and not a "route choice opinion" or something like that. So they put bicycle=no if they don't think it fits their commute bike...

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Colin Smale
On 2016-06-24 09:42, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > sent from a phone > >> Il giorno 24 giu 2016, alle ore 08:24, Michael Tsang >> ha scritto: >> >> Learners can drive on most roads, therefore, the default is yes, with the >> exception of motorways where the default

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > Il giorno 24 giu 2016, alle ore 08:24, Michael Tsang > ha scritto: > > Learners can drive on most roads, therefore, the default is yes, with the > exception of motorways where the default is no. is this something that can also be decided on

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > Il giorno 24 giu 2016, alle ore 00:24, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha > scritto: > > Does not make human sense. > Might be better tagged access:learner_driver=no/yes ? This clearly identifies > it as an access function. +1 while this is not in line with the rest of

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Colin Smale
On 2016-06-24 08:24, Michael Tsang wrote: > Learners can drive on most roads, therefore, the default is yes, with the > exception of motorways where the default is no. This could be more complex than you realise: What about full licence holders who are learning to drive a truck? What about

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-24 Thread Michael Tsang
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver On Thursday 23 June 2016 21:32:04

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-23 Thread Greg Troxel
Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> writes: > On 6/24/2016 2:00 AM, Michael Tsang wrote: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/learner_driver >> >> The proposed feature *learner driver* is to tag the legal access of >> a highway by a vehicle driven by a learner driver. It is similar

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-23 Thread Warin
On 6/24/2016 2:00 AM, Michael Tsang wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/learner_driver The proposed feature *learner driver* is to tag the legal access of a highway by a vehicle driven by a learner driver. It is similar to Key:access#Transport mode restrictions

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

2016-06-23 Thread Michael Tsang
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/learner_driver The proposed feature learner driver is to tag the legal access of a highway by a vehicle driven by a learner driver. It is similar to Key:access#Transport mode restrictions for tagging the legal access by transport mode. Sent