Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - mimics
sent from a phone > On 15. Nov 2019, at 23:20, Paul Allen wrote: > > Also, if I can see a fake pine tree, it's not concealed, is it? If it were > concealed, I wouldn't be > able to see it at all. Another reason to drop tower:construction=concealed. > > So while we're adding mimics=* (or whatever) let's deprecate > tower:construction=concealed. +1, I like the mimics key and agree to deprecate the concealed tower type Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - mimics
You can keep “concealed” and use the “theme” extension idea from playgrounds? A playground isn’t a pirate ship or an octopus, but it appears to be one. Tower:construction=concealed Tower:theme=palm_tree There are several towers that are mimicking religious symbols in the US, beyond trees and whatnot - but a tower simply painted green in a forest is concealed w/o a theme. Just an idea. Javbw > On Nov 16, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Eric Theise wrote: > > tower:construction=concealed ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - mimics
Hi Graeme, Thanks for your input. The guidelines suggest keeping tag names as short as possible and underscored compound words add complexity. If this fell under the camouflage principle of "crypsis" I'd definitely use something like "blends_with" but I think "mimics" is well-understood and precise so I'm going to leave that in the proposal. Thanks, Eric P.S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camouflage On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:06 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > > On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 at 08:40, Eric Theise wrote: > >> >> The first keys I came up with included "_as" – "disguised_as", >> "camouflaged_as" – which was worse. Mimesis is an agreed-upon name for one >> principle of camouflage so I believe "mimics" to be a rather good key. >> > > I quite like "disguised_as" :-) > > "looks_like" maybe? > > Thanks > > Graeme > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - mimics
I've updated the proposal to incorporate Paul Allen's suggestion that the
practice of using tower:construction=concealed be deprecated when a mast or
tower is tagged with mimics=*.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:39 PM Eric Theise wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Thanks for the quick feedback.
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:20 PM Paul Allen wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 20:54, Eric Theise wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I propose to introduce the key mimics to remedy this.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure "mimics" is a good key, but I can't think of a better one.
>> However...
>>
>
> The first keys I came up with included "_as" – "disguised_as",
> "camouflaged_as" – which was worse. Mimesis is an agreed-upon name for one
> principle of camouflage so I believe "mimics" to be a rather good key.
>
>
>> Here is an example where what the tower mimics is included in the note
>>> field.
>>> {
>>> "type": "node",
>>> "id": 567065909,
>>> "lat": 33.7925108,
>>> "lon": -84.3533616,
>>> "tags": {
>>>"man_made": "tower",
>>>"note": "pine tree",
>>>"tower:construction": "concealed",
>>>"tower:type": "communication"
>>> }
>>> }
>>>
>>> In this case note would be simply be replaced with mimics="pine".
>>>
>>
>> As others have said, tower:construction is a bit of a mess. I'd suggest
>> that if there is a
>> mimics=* (or whatever key is settled on) it is unnecessary to state that
>> it's concealed.
>>
>
> Great point, thanks. I'll re-word the proposal to that effect and post
> back here once I've done so.
>
> Eric
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - mimics
On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 at 08:40, Eric Theise wrote: > > The first keys I came up with included "_as" – "disguised_as", > "camouflaged_as" – which was worse. Mimesis is an agreed-upon name for one > principle of camouflage so I believe "mimics" to be a rather good key. > I quite like "disguised_as" :-) "looks_like" maybe? Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - mimics
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the quick feedback.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:20 PM Paul Allen wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 20:54, Eric Theise wrote:
>
>>
>> I propose to introduce the key mimics to remedy this.
>>
>
> I'm not sure "mimics" is a good key, but I can't think of a better one.
> However...
>
The first keys I came up with included "_as" – "disguised_as",
"camouflaged_as" – which was worse. Mimesis is an agreed-upon name for one
principle of camouflage so I believe "mimics" to be a rather good key.
> Here is an example where what the tower mimics is included in the note
>> field.
>> {
>> "type": "node",
>> "id": 567065909,
>> "lat": 33.7925108,
>> "lon": -84.3533616,
>> "tags": {
>>"man_made": "tower",
>>"note": "pine tree",
>>"tower:construction": "concealed",
>>"tower:type": "communication"
>> }
>> }
>>
>> In this case note would be simply be replaced with mimics="pine".
>>
>
> As others have said, tower:construction is a bit of a mess. I'd suggest
> that if there is a
> mimics=* (or whatever key is settled on) it is unnecessary to state that
> it's concealed.
>
Great point, thanks. I'll re-word the proposal to that effect and post back
here once I've done so.
Eric
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - mimics
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 20:54, Eric Theise wrote:
>
> I propose to introduce the key mimics to remedy this.
>
I'm not sure "mimics" is a good key, but I can't think of a better one.
However...
> Here is an example where what the tower mimics is included in the note
> field.
> {
> "type": "node",
> "id": 567065909,
> "lat": 33.7925108,
> "lon": -84.3533616,
> "tags": {
>"man_made": "tower",
>"note": "pine tree",
>"tower:construction": "concealed",
>"tower:type": "communication"
> }
> }
>
> In this case note would be simply be replaced with mimics="pine".
>
As others have said, tower:construction is a bit of a mess. I'd suggest
that if there is a
mimics=* (or whatever key is settled on) it is unnecessary to state that
it's concealed.
It's implicit in the fact that it's mimicking something. Which would help
rationalize
tower:construction a little.
Also, if I can see a fake pine tree, it's not concealed, is it? If it were
concealed, I wouldn't be
able to see it at all. Another reason to drop tower:construction=concealed.
So while we're adding mimics=* (or whatever) let's deprecate
tower:construction=concealed.
--
Paul
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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - mimics
Since 1992 cellphone masts and towers have been disguised as trees, cacti,
and other features of the natural and built world. The suggested practice
for tagging this infrastructure is to use man_made=tower or man_made=mast
with tower:type=communication in combination with
tower:construction=concealed. Unfortunately this does not provide a
mechanism for recording what the mast or tower is disguised as.
I propose to introduce the key mimics to remedy this.
Here is an example where what the tower mimics is included in the note
field.
{
"type": "node",
"id": 567065909,
"lat": 33.7925108,
"lon": -84.3533616,
"tags": {
"man_made": "tower",
"note": "pine tree",
"tower:construction": "concealed",
"tower:type": "communication"
}
}
In this case note would be simply be replaced with mimics="pine".
I have no connection with Cell Trees, Inc., but a list of suggested values
might use their product offerings as a jumping off point – broadleaves,
eucalyptus, saguaro, palm, pine, "water tower" – with the more generic
values cactus and tree allowed, all to be extended as other real world
examples surface.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Mimics
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