Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC canal=qanat

2018-09-01 Thread Paul Allen
On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Joseph Guillaume 
wrote:

>
> I've now added mention that qanats can be tagged in parallel in terms of
> their historic value.
> New text: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?
> title=Proposed_features/Qanat=1644721=1644670
>

That's good.  Ummm, I forgot to mention it last time but from things that
have come up on here before I'd mention
that "historic," in OSM terms, doesn't mean "old" or "abandoned" or
"disused" but that it is of historic importance.
[Not for the wiki:the difference between "history" and "pre-history" are
whether or not there are recorded details (history
started with the invention of writing.)]


> I've also made a first attempt at defining qanats in general terms, and
> explicitly listing names of similar features in other regions (based on the
> Wikipedia article).
>

s/shifts/shafts :)

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC canal=qanat

2018-09-01 Thread Joseph Guillaume
Thanks Paul and Christoph, both for your feedback and encouragement!

I've now added mention that qanats can be tagged in parallel in terms of
their historic value.
New text:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/Qanat=1644721=1644670

I've also made a first attempt at defining qanats in general terms, and
explicitly listing names of similar features in other regions (based on the
Wikipedia article). The term "qanat" is therefore used because it is the
most commonly recognised in English.
As part of the definition of qanats, I've stated that they are always
free-flowing, not pressurized/pipe flow. I understand this is generally
true, and if there are exceptions, then a different waterway subtag might
be needed in future.
New text:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/Qanat=1644818=1644721

Best Regards,

Joseph


On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 5:09 PM Joseph Guillaume 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm planning to map some qanats, underground channels for conveying
> groundwater that have vertical excavation shafts visible from the
> surface/aerial imagery (see proposal for example).
>
> This was previously discussed in 2013.
> Since then, the role of different waterway tags has been clarified, which
> indicates that waterway=canal is appropriate, combined with subtag
> canal=qanat and tunnel=flooded.
>
> Qanat shafts are still a little tricky as there are specific tags for
> mineshaft and water_well, but neither of these are really appropriate, and
> don't have a generic version.
> I'm proposing to use a generic man_made=excavation with subtag
> excavation=qanat_shaft.
>
> Here's the full proposal. Thanks to user emes, who drafted the original
> version in 2013.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Qanat
>
> This email has two purposes: it would be great to have the formal proposal
> discussed and approved.
> But if consensus is impossible, I'll be mapping anyway, so I'm hoping for
> some feedback/alternative names before I go ahead and map 100s of them.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC canal=qanat

2018-09-01 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Saturday 01 September 2018, Joseph Guillaume wrote:
>
> I'm planning to map some qanats, underground channels for conveying
> groundwater that have vertical excavation shafts visible from the
> surface/aerial imagery (see proposal for example).
>
> [...]

What you need to consider here is if you want to make this tagging 
fairly specific to what is locally called "qanat" or if you want it to 
be used for a broad range of objects also in other parts of the world.  
In the latter case having a clear abstract definition what the tag is 
meant to describe physically that is not just a description of what a 
qanat is would be essential.  Both variants have their advantages and 
disadvantages.

Apart from that it is important to remember that waterway=canal is only 
for free surface flow - for pressurized tunneled waterflow 
waterway=canal is not suited.  If you want to use the same tagging for 
both you should choose a different primary tag.  Qanats built in loose 
ground are exclusively free surface flow but there might be mixed 
constructions in some cases.

In any case it is very good to see distinct tagging being developed for 
this kind of feature and not just generic underground waterway tagging 
being used.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC canal=qanat

2018-09-01 Thread Paul Allen
On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Joseph Guillaume 
wrote:

Here's the full proposal. Thanks to user emes, who drafted the original
> version in 2013.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Qanat
>

Looks reasonable to me, at first inspection (it's likely other people will
have some quibble).  However...

In the proposal you link to two previous discussions.  In the forum
discussion, post number 6 from lutz mentions
something you didn't cover: for old qanats add historic=aqueduct +
aqueduct=qanat.  The will cause the historic
qanats to be rendered on the Historic Places map (follow the link lutz gave
for an example).  Well worth documenting even
if you, yourself, don't map any qanats that qualify for its use.

-- 
Paul
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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC canal=qanat

2018-09-01 Thread Joseph Guillaume
Hi,

I'm planning to map some qanats, underground channels for conveying
groundwater that have vertical excavation shafts visible from the
surface/aerial imagery (see proposal for example).

This was previously discussed in 2013.
Since then, the role of different waterway tags has been clarified, which
indicates that waterway=canal is appropriate, combined with subtag
canal=qanat and tunnel=flooded.

Qanat shafts are still a little tricky as there are specific tags for
mineshaft and water_well, but neither of these are really appropriate, and
don't have a generic version.
I'm proposing to use a generic man_made=excavation with subtag
excavation=qanat_shaft.

Here's the full proposal. Thanks to user emes, who drafted the original
version in 2013.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Qanat

This email has two purposes: it would be great to have the formal proposal
discussed and approved.
But if consensus is impossible, I'll be mapping anyway, so I'm hoping for
some feedback/alternative names before I go ahead and map 100s of them.

Thanks in advance,


Joseph
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