Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
Since the previous version was in RFC for far more than 2 Weeks and there were no discussions about the physical location. I figured one week would be enough. The Proposal Process page specifies :At least two weeks after the RFC, and once problems brought up in discussion have been resolved by modifying the proposal, send out a (Request for Voting). Since I thought that i resolved all the issues, i figured one additional week would be enough. Tobias Knerr osm at tobias-knerr.de, Tue Feb 10 15:41:42 UTC 2015 Oh dear. I had hoped to discuss the mapping of physical traffic signal locations with you before the vote. I was not aware that you had planned to vote after just 1 week of discussion for the new proposal version. Tobias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
On 09.02.2015 15:31, Lukas Schaus wrote: My proposal concerning the modelling of traffic signals is now open for voting. Oh dear. I had hoped to discuss the mapping of physical traffic signal locations with you before the vote. I was not aware that you had planned to vote after just 1 week of discussion for the new proposal version. Tobias ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
On Mon, 2015-02-09 at 20:38 +, Lukas Sommer wrote: I know that I’m a little late with this comment – I missed this while reading the proposal. Sorry. Maybe that’s something that can be changed in the prososal – if current voters agree? 2015-02-09 17:29 GMT, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: I would strongly recommend to not use type=traffic_signals because we This does seem very complicated, I cannot see much take up by mappers on the ground. Traffic signal timing varies by time of day, day of week, and traffic density. Many traffic signals can be remotely controlled to clear problems. It is really not a simple case of green is x seconds, but will vary throughout the day. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
My feelingsis this not something for a separate study by someone rather than a feature on OSM? Keeping this kind of information updated will be an impossibilitymany cities are becoming computerised and the signals adjusted according to the traffic conditions along that road. At best the timings could be either static or variable. On 10 February 2015 at 11:00, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-02-10 11:29 GMT+01:00 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: This does seem very complicated, I cannot see much take up by mappers on the ground. Traffic signal timing varies by time of day, day of week, and traffic density. Many traffic signals can be remotely controlled to clear problems. It is really not a simple case of green is x seconds, but will vary throughout the day. I'm sure mappers are not going to update this very much, but it could be automated. An app could have a camera and could scan periods of lights, put them in a database, analyze times of days, and after enough data put it in osm. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
2015-02-10 11:29 GMT+01:00 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: This does seem very complicated, I cannot see much take up by mappers on the ground. Traffic signal timing varies by time of day, day of week, and traffic density. Many traffic signals can be remotely controlled to clear problems. It is really not a simple case of green is x seconds, but will vary throughout the day. I'm sure mappers are not going to update this very much, but it could be automated. An app could have a camera and could scan periods of lights, put them in a database, analyze times of days, and after enough data put it in osm. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
On Tue, 2015-02-10 at 11:09 +, AYTOUN RALPH wrote: My feelingsis this not something for a separate study by someone rather than a feature on OSM? Keeping this kind of information updated will be an impossibilitymany cities are becoming computerised and the signals adjusted according to the traffic conditions along that road. At best the timings could be either static or variable. I think most cities traffic lights became computer controlled in the 1970s, they have certainly been remotely operated by an operator using CCTV since then. Even back in the 1960s there were pressure tubes to detect traffic and adjust sequences, during the 70s they were replaced by wireloops in the road. Even with the simplest set of traffic lights, the timing will depend on the amount of traffic and whether a pedestrian has pressed the button hence adding the pedestrian phase. I think this is far to complicated to be included in OSM and any data will rapidly become stale. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
fly lowflight66 at googlemail.com, Mon Feb 9 15:47:00 UTC 2015 You did not comment on my question about micromapping a junction and adding a highway=traffic_signal at the pedestrian crossing or the stop line for each direction separately. Have a look at the examples below [1],[2]. For complete direction separated junctions like [3] we probable will not even need any relation. Please, consider this tagging style and show me how this will work together with your proposal. Altogether, I am not sure if this relation is needed at all but for sure not at the current base. Still would prefer simple tags on the nodes if possible. cu fly [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.10739/7.85080 [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.06123/7.81258 [3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.98530/7.82814 I am sorry i did not see your question, If the traffic signals are mapped at the stop line or the pedestrian crossing this scheme works still perfectly. the From way is the way the signal is at and the direction can be specified by forward or backward. Simple Tags on the nodes only work with this scheme mentioned by you. With intersections where the signal is mapped at the crossing of 2 roads it is not working. Why would there no relation needed in 3? AYTOUN RALPH ralph.aytoun at ntlworld.com, Tue Feb 10 11:09:16 UTC 2015 My feelingsis this not something for a separate study by someone rather than a feature on OSM? Keeping this kind of information updated will be an impossibilitymany cities are becoming computerised and the signals adjusted according to the traffic conditions along that road. At best the timings could be either static or variable. That is why we kept the mapping of the phases simple and not accurate. These values shall give an idea on how long a total cycle of the traffic_signal is and an average of green time or the proportion between red and green time. These two information are very helpful for simulations. Please note that the phases tag is only one part of the proposal. at least as important is the ability to define to-ways for the signal. Knowing this other traffic_signals on the way can be ignored since they are not of concern for the turning vehicle. Also the defined connection of a turn_lane to its destination is a major benefit from this scheme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
Still do not see any need for a relation once we have micromapped enough and this should be the prior quest. What I totally miss are options for operating_time. I won't be able to tag the phase as many other did already mention but I can tell you the times when traffic_signals are usually operating. Guess people might already use opening_hours but I rather prefer operating_time. Am 10.02.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Lukas Schaus: fly lowflight66 at googlemail.com, Mon Feb 9 15:47:00 UTC 2015 You did not comment on my question about micromapping a junction and adding a highway=traffic_signal at the pedestrian crossing or the stop line for each direction separately. Have a look at the examples below [1],[2]. For complete direction separated junctions like [3] we probable will not even need any relation. Please, consider this tagging style and show me how this will work together with your proposal. Altogether, I am not sure if this relation is needed at all but for sure not at the current base. Still would prefer simple tags on the nodes if possible. cu fly [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.10739/7.85080 [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.06123/7.81258 [3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.98530/7.82814 I am sorry i did not see your question, If the traffic signals are mapped at the stop line or the pedestrian crossing this scheme works still perfectly. the From way is the way the signal is at and the direction can be specified by forward or backward. Simple Tags on the nodes only work with this scheme mentioned by you. With intersections where the signal is mapped at the crossing of 2 roads it is not working. Why would there no relation needed in 3? AYTOUN RALPH ralph.aytoun at ntlworld.com, Tue Feb 10 11:09:16 UTC 2015 My feelingsis this not something for a separate study by someone rather than a feature on OSM? Keeping this kind of information updated will be an impossibilitymany cities are becoming computerised and the signals adjusted according to the traffic conditions along that road. At best the timings could be either static or variable. That is why we kept the mapping of the phases simple and not accurate. These values shall give an idea on how long a total cycle of the traffic_signal is and an average of green time or the proportion between red and green time. These two information are very helpful for simulations. Please note that the phases tag is only one part of the proposal. at least as important is the ability to define to-ways for the signal. Knowing this other traffic_signals on the way can be ignored since they are not of concern for the turning vehicle. Also the defined connection of a turn_lane to its destination is a major benefit from this scheme So we need at least tags for these situations like button operated and psv-priority and so on. cu fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
Am 09.02.2015 um 15:35 schrieb Lukas Schaus: Hi, My proposal concerning the modelling of traffic signals is now open for voting. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Traffic_Signals#Voting You did not comment on my question about micromapping a junction and adding a highway=traffic_signal at the pedestrian crossing or the stop line for each direction separately. Have a look at the examples below [1],[2]. For complete direction separated junctions like [3] we probable will not even need any relation. Please, consider this tagging style and show me how this will work together with your proposal. Altogether, I am not sure if this relation is needed at all but for sure not at the current base. Still would prefer simple tags on the nodes if possible. cu fly [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.10739/7.85080 [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.06123/7.81258 [3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.98530/7.82814 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
I would strongly recommend to not use type=traffic_signals because we have already a tag highway=traffic_signals. This would cause confusion. Furthermore, type=traffic_signals does not describe well what your prososal wants to do. With your relation, you don’t want to represent traffic signals but you want to represent traffic signal phases. Something like type=traffic_signals_phase would IMHO be appropriate. 2015-02-09 15:47 GMT, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Am 09.02.2015 um 15:35 schrieb Lukas Schaus: Hi, My proposal concerning the modelling of traffic signals is now open for voting. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Traffic_Signals#Voting You did not comment on my question about micromapping a junction and adding a highway=traffic_signal at the pedestrian crossing or the stop line for each direction separately. Have a look at the examples below [1],[2]. For complete direction separated junctions like [3] we probable will not even need any relation. Please, consider this tagging style and show me how this will work together with your proposal. Altogether, I am not sure if this relation is needed at all but for sure not at the current base. Still would prefer simple tags on the nodes if possible. cu fly [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.10739/7.85080 [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.06123/7.81258 [3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/47.98530/7.82814 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Lukas Sommer ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
I know that I’m a little late with this comment – I missed this while reading the proposal. Sorry. Maybe that’s something that can be changed in the prososal – if current voters agree? 2015-02-09 17:29 GMT, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com: I would strongly recommend to not use type=traffic_signals because we ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
Hi, My proposal concerning the modelling of traffic signals is now open for voting. Thank you ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - traffic_signals (Lukas Schaus)
Hi, My proposal concerning the modelling of traffic signals is now open for voting. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Traffic_Signals#Voting Thank you ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
