Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020, 09:21 Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > Still, even that is > > "Ben Tilly reports on Ten Post Office Sq, Boston MA 02109 USA - which is > not, > reportedly, the same as 10 Post Office Sq, Boston MA 02109 USA." > yes and no. Ben is alas correct. Boston really did allow this insanity, much to the consternation of taxi and delivery drivers. (I wonder if Ben met with the same people there that I did ...) They are (were?) adjacent buildings and the lobby reception/security were very aware that lost people should be sent next door. I forget if i've ever heard *why* they didn't just do some pair of 8, 10, 12 ... probably neither developer would accept being not 10. *sigh* (Each could have an entirely different street address based on the street defining its side of of the "square". Obviously this being Boston the so-called "square" is a trapezoid and not square, or a triangle if you include the little appendage park on the side, but i don't think that qualifies for POSquare vanity addresses.) (I'm not sure if this will remain true once the new construction on P.O.Square is done.) So housename "Ten" and housenumber "10". > Usually here, a vanity building name is "Pretty Fancy Place" with no number, or "One Somewhere Place", not Ten, but this pair of buildings it's Ten/10 Something Square. As i understand that block an actual housenumber would be on the through street defining the side of the square, so those might both be housename "Ten Post Office Square" and "10 Post Office Square" and not use housenumber. They are both fanciful names assigned by the developer, not connected to the city street naming. And thus neither is the 10/Ten the housename alone. (If the new construction is replacing both 10 and Ten iirc, perhaps they'll name the block long replacement X Post Office Square? Better would be the real street number !!) > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
sent from a phone > On 2. Jul 2020, at 10:55, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote: > > I tagged it like that because I had trouble finding it when I had to go > there to visit a patient. established solution for this is using the key “ref”. addr:housename is about addresses. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 20:55:07 +0200 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >sent from a phone > >> On 1. Jul 2020, at 04:35, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Highly likely these are errors. However it is not impossible that a >> number could be used as a house name. > > >can you give an example? > >By which definition a number written as number can be a „name“? Here is a map of a hospital https://publikationer.regionh.dk/pdf/full-12684/kort-over-rigshospitalet-blegdamsvej.pdf e.g. "86" is tagged by me with name="86" https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283107636/history#map=17/55.69781/12.56517 The postal address of the building is "Esther Møllers Vej 6" I tagged it like that because I had trouble finding it when I had to go there to visit a patient. > >If it is, I would suspect a tagging error, because if the name is >„fiftyfour“, you should not write it „54“ or „LIV“ > >Probably most cases can be solved remotely by looking at the >surroundings. > >I agree that we could ask the mappers in the remaining cases. > >Cheers Martin > > > >___ >Tagging mailing list >Tagging@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 20:00, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > On 1. Jul 2020, at 12:55, Paul Allen wrote: > > > > Of > > course, most people in the UK don't know that and just stick up a > > house name or change an existing one without approval. Other > > jurisdictions may not require approval. > > it does not mean we can not recognize the housenames that aren’t approved. > We do not have to follow official housename rules and could say that a sign > with a housename on it is sufficient for inclusion in OpenStreetMap (and > these could be useful even if they are not officially recognized). > I wasn't suggesting otherwise. Official sources of house names may be unavailable to us because of copyright. But even if those are available, I consider the house name that is actually displayed on the house to override the official name. A map that displays the official name is of little use to somebody looking for the displayed name. The owner is likely to pass on the displayed name, so anyone trying to find it on a map which has only the official name won't find it. Similarly, when navigating, it's useful to have the name on the map match what is actually visible. What's on the ground beats what's in an official record. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
sent from a phone > On 1. Jul 2020, at 12:55, Paul Allen wrote: > > Of > course, most people in the UK don't know that and just stick up a > house name or change an existing one without approval. Other > jurisdictions may not require approval. it does not mean we can not recognize the housenames that aren’t approved. We do not have to follow official housename rules and could say that a sign with a housename on it is sufficient for inclusion in OpenStreetMap (and these could be useful even if they are not officially recognized). Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
sent from a phone > On 1. Jul 2020, at 04:35, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Highly likely these are errors. However it is not impossible that a number > could be used as a house name. can you give an example? By which definition a number written as number can be a „name“? If it is, I would suspect a tagging error, because if the name is „fiftyfour“, you should not write it „54“ or „LIV“ Probably most cases can be solved remotely by looking at the surroundings. I agree that we could ask the mappers in the remaining cases. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
Jul 1, 2020, 13:49 by ajt1...@gmail.com: > > On 30/06/2020 14:06, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > >> We have 15000 addresses such as addr:housename=3 ( >> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/VBS ) >> >> Is there some chance that any of them is valid? Because it seems to me that >> editors should complain about addr:housename with just numbers. >> > > Any? Quite possibly: > > https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/ > > (especially "A building name won't also be a number"). Pretty much every > edge case exists somewhere. > > I doubt that those 15k are all valid though. > > Best Regards, > > Andy > Still, even that is "Ben Tilly reports on Ten Post Office Sq, Boston MA 02109 USA - which is not, reportedly, the same as 10 Post Office Sq, Boston MA 02109 USA." So housename "Ten" and housenumber "10". ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On 30/06/2020 14:06, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: We have 15000 addresses such as addr:housename=3 ( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/VBS ) Is there some chance that any of them is valid? Because it seems to me that editors should complain about addr:housename with just numbers. Any? Quite possibly: https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/ (especially "A building name won't also be a number"). Pretty much every edge case exists somewhere. I doubt that those 15k are all valid though. Best Regards, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 03:35, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Highly likely these are errors. However it is not impossible that a number > > could be used as a house name. > > Not impossible. But very unlikely. In the UK, you're meant to get your house name approved by the local authority (county council or unitary council, in most cases) and that is very unlikely to be approved. Of course, most people in the UK don't know that and just stick up a house name or change an existing one without approval. Other jurisdictions may not require approval. Even so, how would one tell if "39" displayed on a house is intended to be a name rather than a number? One way, I suppose, would be if a house displayed both an in-sequence number and a different number, but maybe the house has been split up into two dwellings and one given a new number. But in that case it would be nore likely that 6 would be split into 6 and 6A, or into 6A and 6B, than into 6 and 39. I once mapped a building with "Number 39" displayed on it in very big letters. The houses adjacent to it were 38 and 40. It was an office of some sort. A bit of digging indicated it might be the office of a company providing probation services, so "Number 39" was probably intended to prevent people being embarrassed by being seen entering a probation office whilst making it very clear to those attending for the first time that this was the building they were looking for. It's barely possible the number on a building could be a house name. Some madcap owner deciding to confuse people. Or some business like 3 Mobile (UK cellphone network) using "3" as both the business name and the building name, although I'd expect something like "3 House" in that case. My opinion is treat it as an error. In the few cases (if any) that the number really is the house name, then it's the owner's problem for choosing a stupid name. I shall now apply to my council to name my house "This is not a house name." -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
Hi * On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 03:16:38PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > sent from a phone > > On 30. Jun 2020, at 15:08, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging > > wrote: > > > > Is there some chance that any of them is valid? > > > IMHO not, these are likely autocompletion bloopers. I’d support an > automatic retagging effort to addr:housenumber (unless there is > already a different housenumber) I had a quick look as addr:housename around where i feel interested and 99% are broken. Most of the time it belongs into name as its the companys name, sometimes its abused as replacement for ref of buildings. Sometimes its just a duplication of some other tags content. And most of the time you find that you'll find even more tag abuse and random invented tags. In my case they were mostly 8+ years old. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 12:26, Andrew Davidson wrote: > > The query only returns a count of how many elements it found. If you want > to map them you'll need a modified version: > > http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/VDp > Thanks! Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On 30/6/20 11:16 pm, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 30. Jun 2020, at 15:08, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: Is there some chance that any of them is valid? IMHO not, these are likely autocompletion bloopers. Highly likely these are errors. However it is not impossible that a number could be used as a house name. I’d support an automatic retagging effort to addr:housenumber (unless there is already a different housenumber) I would not support auto retagging. Contact the mappers and ask them. I have come across one or two of these, contacted the mapper and one mapper agreed that it was an error. The other mapper argued, settled by web search evidence that it was not the name. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:15 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > " This query returned no nodes. In OSM, only nodes contain coordinates. > For example, a way cannot be displayed without its nodes" > > Is there a hiccup in the way it's written, or is my system playing up this > morning? > The query only returns a count of how many elements it found. If you want to map them you'll need a modified version: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/VDp ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 23:08, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > We have 15000 addresses such as addr:housename=3 ( > http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/VBS ) > That search is producing an error for me, once over Australia & then again for Western Europe: " This query returned no nodes. In OSM, only nodes contain coordinates. For example, a way cannot be displayed without its nodes" Is there a hiccup in the way it's written, or is my system playing up this morning? Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
sent from a phone > On 30. Jun 2020, at 15:08, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging > wrote: > > Is there some chance that any of them is valid? IMHO not, these are likely autocompletion bloopers. I’d support an automatic retagging effort to addr:housenumber (unless there is already a different housenumber) Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Is there any case of valid numeric addr:housename - for example addr:housename?
We have 15000 addresses such as addr:housename=3 ( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/VBS ) Is there some chance that any of them is valid? Because it seems to me that editors should complain about addr:housename with just numbers. I want to check worldwide situation before proposing doing it in say JOSM. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
