Re: [Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
2014-11-19 20:11 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe fl.infosrese...@gmail.com: Thank you Pieren for the revert +1, this shouldn't indeed be in mapfeatures (tag docu / definition is nice, but map features should be well established, well formed tags, suitable to be recommended to other mappers for use) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
Hi I've recently noticed that man_made=MDF has been added to man_made template on Map Features page. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features:man_made This key's page say this tag status is De Facto. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3DMDF I strongly discourage the use of MDF as a man_made feature since it's only a functional component of a telco central office. According to picture, it's usually a large metal grid where public copper landlines are connected to equipments which provide services. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Hvt-ports.jpg Mappers won't be able to see MDFs unless they get in central offices building which may be difficult. I suggest to don't add such tags to Map Feature prior to deeply refine telecom tagging scheme. All the best *François Lacombe* fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com www.infos-reseaux.com @InfosReseaux http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
Further, it is a 3-letter acronym which could mean different things. Acronyms are generally not suitable for OSM, oops, Openstreetmap. François Lacombe wrote on 2014-11-19 11:53: Hi I've recently noticed that man_made=MDF has been added to man_made template on Map Features page. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features:man_made This key's page say this tag status is De Facto. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3DMDF I strongly discourage the use of MDF as a man_made feature since it's only a functional component of a telco central office. According to picture, it's usually a large metal grid where public copper landlines are connected to equipments which provide services. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Hvt-ports.jpg Mappers won't be able to see MDFs unless they get in central offices building which may be difficult. I suggest to don't add such tags to Map Feature prior to deeply refine telecom tagging scheme. All the best *François Lacombe* ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
2014-11-19 12:04 GMT+01:00 Tom Pfeifer t.pfei...@computer.org: Further, it is a 3-letter acronym which could mean different things. Acronyms are generally not suitable for OSM, oops, Openstreetmap. yes, and it is written in capital letters, while formal tags should stick to lower case. While I share your concerns, this is a historic tag and the docu is documenting the defacto state (more than 7000 of these already in the data): http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=man_made%3DMDF Regarding the it is only one functional component inside a telco central office building: you could read this as describing a location of a telco installation with also a MDF present on the site. Maybe an attribute (to add to a telco site) would have been better. This data, while it might not be surveyable on site, is publicly available in Germany: http://www.vexnet.de/files/hvt-schnittstellen.pdf cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
No problem with the De Facto status, except it shouldn't be added to map features. 2014-11-19 13:05 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Regarding the it is only one functional component inside a telco central office building: you could read this as describing a location of a telco installation with also a MDF present on the site. Maybe an attribute (to add to a telco site) would have been better. This data, while it might not be surveyable on site, is publicly available in Germany: http://www.vexnet.de/files/hvt-schnittstellen.pdf It's sure an attribute dedicated to the site would have been better. We should tag the building as a central office and link to the file you've mentioned to get more information. I see no point to assume MDF as more representative than any other service equipment (DSLAM, OLT, PSTN, ...) to qualify a whole building. To give an example : I see a door on this building, then I'll be using building=yes + man_made=door. All the best *François Lacombe* fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com www.infos-reseaux.com @InfosReseaux http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
2014-11-19 13:26 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe fl.infosrese...@gmail.com: I see no point to assume MDF as more representative than any other service equipment (DSLAM, OLT, PSTN, ...) to qualify a whole building. see this as missing data: we don't have the telco buildings (or at least we didn't have them by the time this import was done), and this is not formally a tag to represent the whole building, it is defacto the only tag for the whole site (mostly, I guess), and as such defacto representing also the telco installation. If you want to map the locations of other service equipment like DSLAM, OLT or PSTN, please use different tags (no abbreviations or at least a generally understandable prefix like telecomunication/telco). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: formally a tag to represent the whole building, it is defacto the only tag for the whole site (mostly, I guess), and as such defacto representing also the telco installation. If you want to map the locations of other service equipment like DSLAM, OLT or PSTN, please use different tags (no abbreviations or at least a generally understandable prefix like telecomunication/telco). I don't remember any discussion about such tag on a global list. And we always recommand to not use abbreviations in tags since OSM tags can be read by any one, not only telecom experts (or any experts groups who love to exclude others by using a cryptic language). If it's coming from an import, the use stats do not reflect any significant adoption by contributions. It is then a defacto bad idea to validate an import mistake in the wiki ;-) Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
2014-11-19 13:45 GMT+01:00 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: I don't remember any discussion about such tag on a global list. this is from 2008, a time when in France there were still big data voids (i.e. pre-cadastre, pre-corine, still small community), and before the tagging or imports list had been created. It was also pre-import guidelines. By the time, this was discussed on talk-de and documented on a German wikipage: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=DE:DSL_Hauptverteileroldid=170386 And we always recommand to not use abbreviations in tags since OSM tags can be read by any one, not only telecom experts (or any experts groups who love to exclude others by using a cryptic language). +1 If it's coming from an import, the use stats do not reflect any significant adoption by contributions. It is then a defacto bad idea to validate an import mistake in the wiki ;-) I'd see this more as a courtesy for those who don't like to read the wiki in German. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Main Distribution Frame added to man_made template
Thank you Pieren for the revert *François Lacombe* fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com www.infos-reseaux.com @InfosReseaux http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux 2014-11-19 13:59 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-11-19 13:45 GMT+01:00 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: I don't remember any discussion about such tag on a global list. this is from 2008, a time when in France there were still big data voids (i.e. pre-cadastre, pre-corine, still small community), and before the tagging or imports list had been created. It was also pre-import guidelines. By the time, this was discussed on talk-de and documented on a German wikipage: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=DE:DSL_Hauptverteileroldid=170386 And we always recommand to not use abbreviations in tags since OSM tags can be read by any one, not only telecom experts (or any experts groups who love to exclude others by using a cryptic language). +1 If it's coming from an import, the use stats do not reflect any significant adoption by contributions. It is then a defacto bad idea to validate an import mistake in the wiki ;-) I'd see this more as a courtesy for those who don't like to read the wiki in German. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
