Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
This is exactly what I was looking for! And I see the wiki for man_made=adit was updated today to include mention of the direction tag. Thanks! > On Mar 10, 2017, at 6:11 AM, Zecke wrote: > > Please note that www.historic.place displays the orientation of adits. As it > can be seen here: > http://gk.historic.place/historische_objekte/translate/en/index-en.html?zoom=17&lat=49.27361&lon=6.9515&select=n2218896180&pid=KmHaSaHe > > We evaluate the direction tag, Please note that the direction is seen from > the underground gallery outwards. > > See also: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:direction > > Regards, > Carsten > > Am 10.03.2017 um 14:48 schrieb Tod Fitch: >> There are a number of abandoned adits and mine shafts in an area I’ve done >> some mapping in. When looking at old USGS topographic maps of the area, I’ve >> noticed that they used to align their symbol for an adit to show its >> orientation. > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Mark Wagner wrote: > Thing is, the information *isn't* available by other means. Adits > don't always go straight in -- of the two I'm aware of, both are at > rather sharp angles to the (very local) slope of the hill. > OK, you've convinced me, and in any case, I was playing the devil's advocate and anticipating the objections of others. I still like this approach for cave entrances, small dams (represented as points), waterfalls on small streams (represented as points), and other similar features where there is a point feature with a flow of goods, water, traffic, ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Mike Thompson wrote: > On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Kevin Kenny > wrote: > >> >> I can just now hear, nevertheless, a chorus asserting that the >> information is available by other means and therefore does not belong in >> OSM. An adit or a cave entrance (that isn't a sinkhole) pretty much has to >> go into a hillside, and a waterfall or a dam flows downhill, so with >> information about local topography, the direction can be determined. >> > In many parts of the world there may not be elevation data with an open > license of suitable resolution to make this determination for an adit. > Outside the band of 54° S to 60° N, you're certainly right about that. Within that band, the August 2015 NASA data set is in the public domain and has coverage at 30 m resolution horizontally. That's probably Not Quite Good Enough - I get spoilt by the 10 m coverage available for North America. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:34:51 -0500 Kevin Kenny wrote: > I can just now hear, nevertheless, a chorus asserting that the > information is available by other means and therefore does not belong > in OSM. An adit or a cave entrance (that isn't a sinkhole) pretty > much has to go into a hillside, and a waterfall or a dam flows > downhill, so with information about local topography, the direction > can be determined. Thing is, the information *isn't* available by other means. Adits don't always go straight in -- of the two I'm aware of, both are at rather sharp angles to the (very local) slope of the hill. -- Mark ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Zecke wrote: > Am 10.03.2017 20:04, schrieb Mike Thompson: > > > > On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Kevin Kenny > wrote: > >> >> I can just now hear, nevertheless, a chorus asserting that the >> information is available by other means and therefore does not belong in >> OSM. An adit or a cave entrance (that isn't a sinkhole) pretty much has to >> go into a hillside, and a waterfall or a dam flows downhill, so with >> information about local topography, the direction can be determined. >> > In many parts of the world there may not be elevation data with an open > license of suitable resolution to make this determination for an adit. > > It's not true that an adit always enters the hill in slope direction. I > know of many adits entering at an angle. So this approach does not really > help. We decided to use a different symbol for adits without direction > information than for directed adits. > All the more reason to explicitly tag the direction of the opening. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
Am 10.03.2017 20:04, schrieb Mike Thompson: On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Kevin Kenny mailto:kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com>> wrote: I can just now hear, nevertheless, a chorus asserting that the information is available by other means and therefore does not belong in OSM. An adit or a cave entrance (that isn't a sinkhole) pretty much has to go into a hillside, and a waterfall or a dam flows downhill, so with information about local topography, the direction can be determined. In many parts of the world there may not be elevation data with an open license of suitable resolution to make this determination for an adit. It's not true that an adit always enters the hill in slope direction. I know of many adits entering at an angle. So this approach does not really help. We decided to use a different symbol for adits without direction information than for directed adits. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 7:34 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote: > > I can just now hear, nevertheless, a chorus asserting that the information > is available by other means and therefore does not belong in OSM. An adit > or a cave entrance (that isn't a sinkhole) pretty much has to go into a > hillside, and a waterfall or a dam flows downhill, so with information > about local topography, the direction can be determined. > In many parts of the world there may not be elevation data with an open license of suitable resolution to make this determination for an adit. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
Hello, +1 for direction tag. Dalibor > -Original Message- > From: Zecke [mailto:zecke@historic.place] > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 3:12 PM > To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > Subject: Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit? > > Please note that www.historic.place displays the orientation of adits. > As it can be seen here: > http://gk.historic.place/historische_objekte/translate/en/index- > en.html?zoom=17&lat=49.27361&lon=6.9515&select=n2218896180&pid=Km > HaSaHe > > We evaluate the direction tag, Please note that the direction is seen from the > underground gallery outwards. > > See also: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:direction > > Regards, > Carsten > > Am 10.03.2017 um 14:48 schrieb Tod Fitch: > > There are a number of abandoned adits and mine shafts in an area I’ve > done some mapping in. When looking at old USGS topographic maps of the > area, I’ve noticed that they used to align their symbol for an adit to show > its > orientation. > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
On 03/10/2017 08:48 AM, Tod Fitch wrote: There are a number of abandoned adits and mine shafts in an area I’ve done some mapping in. When looking at old USGS topographic maps of the area, I’ve noticed that they used to align their symbol for an adit to show its orientation. My inclination, at present, is to use either: bearing=* or adit:bearing=* Where the value would be in degrees clockwise from north, though I doubt that more accuracy is needed than just compass points. Comments? Suggestions? I rather like this idea (which, I'm afraid, means that the consensus here will not. It would be useful not only for adits, but also for cave entrances. Moreover, I'd like to see such a thing on small dams, small waterfalls, and other directional point features. I know that the hydrographic ones can be deduced from direction of the flow of the watercourse, but that, too, is difficult to extract from the OSM data model - difficult enough that I know of no rendering of OSM that is able to use the conventional symbol of blue hashmarks across a stream to represent a waterfall or black ones to represent a dam. It would similarly help for point objects used to represent barriers such as gates. I can just now hear, nevertheless, a chorus asserting that the information is available by other means and therefore does not belong in OSM. An adit or a cave entrance (that isn't a sinkhole) pretty much has to go into a hillside, and a waterfall or a dam flows downhill, so with information about local topography, the direction can be determined. The conventional symbol for a gate would be drawn across the roadway (and presumably the roadway direction is available), and so on. The fact that this hasn't been done yet, I'd argue, indicates that it is difficult enough that a little bit of auxiliary data might help! And now I've got something added to my "to do eventually if nobody gets to it first" list - a piece of programming to take features of this sort, find corresponding points on interpolated data in an elevation data set, and use gradient information to come up with a direction for rendering the symbol ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
Please note that www.historic.place displays the orientation of adits. As it can be seen here: http://gk.historic.place/historische_objekte/translate/en/index-en.html?zoom=17&lat=49.27361&lon=6.9515&select=n2218896180&pid=KmHaSaHe We evaluate the direction tag, Please note that the direction is seen from the underground gallery outwards. See also: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:direction Regards, Carsten Am 10.03.2017 um 14:48 schrieb Tod Fitch: There are a number of abandoned adits and mine shafts in an area I’ve done some mapping in. When looking at old USGS topographic maps of the area, I’ve noticed that they used to align their symbol for an adit to show its orientation. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
On 2017-03-10 14:48, Tod Fitch wrote: > There are a number of abandoned adits and mine shafts in an area I've done > some mapping in. When looking at old USGS topographic maps of the area, I've > noticed that they used to align their symbol for an adit to show its > orientation. > > I'd like to duplicate that rendering on the topographic maps I make, but > adits [1 [1]] are single points in the OSM data model without a bearing or > orientation tag so there is no information to drive the rendering. > > There does not seem to be much in the wiki [2 [2]], [3 [3]] or taginfo [4 > [4]] for applying a bearing or orientation to a point. > > My inclination, at present, is to use either: > > bearing=* > or > adit:bearing=* Speaking of inclination, would that not be a relevant characteristic for adits? They are not all level, as I understand it. //colin Links: -- [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dadit [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Tag_mappings [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Seamarks/Sectored_and_Directional_Lights [4] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=bearing___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Orientation of an adit?
There are a number of abandoned adits and mine shafts in an area I’ve done some mapping in. When looking at old USGS topographic maps of the area, I’ve noticed that they used to align their symbol for an adit to show its orientation. I’d like to duplicate that rendering on the topographic maps I make, but adits [1] are single points in the OSM data model without a bearing or orientation tag so there is no information to drive the rendering. There does not seem to be much in the wiki [2], [3] or taginfo [4] for applying a bearing or orientation to a point. My inclination, at present, is to use either: bearing=* or adit:bearing=* Where the value would be in degrees clockwise from north, though I doubt that more accuracy is needed than just compass points. Comments? Suggestions? [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dadit [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Tag_mappings [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Seamarks/Sectored_and_Directional_Lights [4] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=bearing ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging