Re: [Tagging] Personal Keys for WikiProject, Survey Data for Import
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Alex Rollin wrote: > How do I know/get-notified it was changed? > Specifically, how would you setup a system to receive notification that the > object was changed? > Have you done it? Do you have some scripts to share? (Can I please NOT > have to add a relation?) > We are talking about many thousands of nodes, btw. If the ID is a "personal ID", not something used by externals, then why simply not using the OSM element id itself (node id or way id or relation id) ? >- OSM is not an storages for external IDs, the external DB should link to OSM >objects >- use wikipedia / wikidata links Who can decide that wikidata is not an external ID which shouldn't be stored in OSM ? Why wikidata couldn't link to OSM objects ? Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Personal Keys for WikiProject, Survey Data for Import
The biggest problem with ids is that it may degenerate into cases where single objects has a giant list of various ids. 2014-09-18 9:17 GMT+02:00 Peter Wendorff : > Am 18.09.2014 um 08:35 schrieb Alex Rollin: > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Mateusz Konieczny < > matkoni...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> That is really poor idea. IMHO remembering location and object type > should > >> be enough to identify it. > >> > > > > OK, I'm game: let us say it is a node with an amenity and name tag > > attached. Let us also say that the positioning is absolutely accurate, > for > > the sake of the cases. Let us say my goal is to maintain the node, in > the > > same place, and to add international names and more information over > time. > > These are heritage objects, for the most part, not commercial locations. > > > > So, I post it to OSM, and then it is changed. > > > > Change case 1. Someone moves the node, changes the name, changes and the > > amenity tags (new, different amenity value) > > Change case 2. Someone deletes the node, and then someone else adds it > > again in a slightly (100m) different position > > > > How do I know/get-notified it was changed? > Counter-question: Why should your personal id help there? Some examples: > > Change case 3: Someone removes your ID (whyever), as a result your id is > missing and you have to fall back to handle it as if there was no id at > all. > Change case 4: Someone moves your object without touching the id - what > do you do in that case? is it still the same object or something else? > Spotting that could be done by observing the object by id (and react on > edits on it) > Change case 5: Someone edits the tags of your object. Let's say you have > a heritage that is a building and inside this building there's a museum. > Let both be tagged on a single node where you set the ID to. Someone > else adds the building outline and re-uses the node as one node of the > outline. Should your ID be moved as well? > Change case 5a: Same as 5, but as in the building there's more than just > the museum, the node has to be split to two (or more) objects. There's a > polygon for the building outline, and three nodes inside - one for the > museum, one for the gift shop and one for the public toilets. Where > should the ID go to? The Building? The Museum? The shop? Building and > museum? It's very hard to decide that without exactly knowing how your > ID is built. > > In contrast look at the overpass-permanent-id [1] as another way how to > achieve such ids. > This is more a qualitative approach: You define what to link to by it's > properties. > If you want to link to the museum with a given name in a roughly known > area, you can do that. If you want to link to a building with a given > address, that's possible, and if you want to link to a gift shop even > that's no problem. > Of course this may break as well, but you don't have much more work to > spot these errors, and mappers who want to edit the objects you linked > to have much less work and confusion. > > regards > Peter > > [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Permanent_ID > > Specifically, how would you setup a system to receive notification that > the > > object was changed? > > Have you done it? Do you have some scripts to share? (Can I please NOT > > have to add a relation?) > > We are talking about many thousands of nodes, btw. > > > > Oh, btw, should we be busy stripping out all the USGS GNIS tags? Of > course > > not, so, I am new to this, and I spend a lot of time on OSM, but I really > > don't know where to start with scripting tracking for thousands of nodes > > that might get a new unique ID every other week. > > > > Where do I start? > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-18 1:43 GMT+02:00 Alex Rollin : > >> > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> We are surveying for local points of interest. > >>> > >>> We need to store an ID for these objects to keep track of them. I think > >>> this is called a "personal key"? > >>> > >>> Something like indonesiaheritage:ID=231892312 > >>> > >>> Is that the acceptable format for such a thing? > >>> > >>> We will then publish a page on the wiki about the data, and connect > that > >>> page to the WikiProject. > >>> > >>> I am deducing from what I see for the USGS_GNIS survey import: > >>> > >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/USGS_GNIS > >>> > >>> gnis:feature_id (allows feebdack on the data set, corresponds to > original > >>> data) > >>> > >>> Is there anything else we can do to improve our plan? > >>> > >>> Relevant links: > >>> > >>> WikiProject Indonesia: > >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Indonesia > >>> > >>> Here is my user page on the wiki. > >>> > >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Alexrollin > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Alex > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> Tagging mailing list > >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _
Re: [Tagging] Personal Keys for WikiProject, Survey Data for Import
Am 18.09.2014 um 08:35 schrieb Alex Rollin: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Mateusz Konieczny > wrote: > >> That is really poor idea. IMHO remembering location and object type should >> be enough to identify it. >> > > OK, I'm game: let us say it is a node with an amenity and name tag > attached. Let us also say that the positioning is absolutely accurate, for > the sake of the cases. Let us say my goal is to maintain the node, in the > same place, and to add international names and more information over time. > These are heritage objects, for the most part, not commercial locations. > > So, I post it to OSM, and then it is changed. > > Change case 1. Someone moves the node, changes the name, changes and the > amenity tags (new, different amenity value) > Change case 2. Someone deletes the node, and then someone else adds it > again in a slightly (100m) different position > > How do I know/get-notified it was changed? Counter-question: Why should your personal id help there? Some examples: Change case 3: Someone removes your ID (whyever), as a result your id is missing and you have to fall back to handle it as if there was no id at all. Change case 4: Someone moves your object without touching the id - what do you do in that case? is it still the same object or something else? Spotting that could be done by observing the object by id (and react on edits on it) Change case 5: Someone edits the tags of your object. Let's say you have a heritage that is a building and inside this building there's a museum. Let both be tagged on a single node where you set the ID to. Someone else adds the building outline and re-uses the node as one node of the outline. Should your ID be moved as well? Change case 5a: Same as 5, but as in the building there's more than just the museum, the node has to be split to two (or more) objects. There's a polygon for the building outline, and three nodes inside - one for the museum, one for the gift shop and one for the public toilets. Where should the ID go to? The Building? The Museum? The shop? Building and museum? It's very hard to decide that without exactly knowing how your ID is built. In contrast look at the overpass-permanent-id [1] as another way how to achieve such ids. This is more a qualitative approach: You define what to link to by it's properties. If you want to link to the museum with a given name in a roughly known area, you can do that. If you want to link to a building with a given address, that's possible, and if you want to link to a gift shop even that's no problem. Of course this may break as well, but you don't have much more work to spot these errors, and mappers who want to edit the objects you linked to have much less work and confusion. regards Peter [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Permanent_ID > Specifically, how would you setup a system to receive notification that the > object was changed? > Have you done it? Do you have some scripts to share? (Can I please NOT > have to add a relation?) > We are talking about many thousands of nodes, btw. > > Oh, btw, should we be busy stripping out all the USGS GNIS tags? Of course > not, so, I am new to this, and I spend a lot of time on OSM, but I really > don't know where to start with scripting tracking for thousands of nodes > that might get a new unique ID every other week. > > Where do I start? > > > >> 2014-09-18 1:43 GMT+02:00 Alex Rollin : >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> We are surveying for local points of interest. >>> >>> We need to store an ID for these objects to keep track of them. I think >>> this is called a "personal key"? >>> >>> Something like indonesiaheritage:ID=231892312 >>> >>> Is that the acceptable format for such a thing? >>> >>> We will then publish a page on the wiki about the data, and connect that >>> page to the WikiProject. >>> >>> I am deducing from what I see for the USGS_GNIS survey import: >>> >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/USGS_GNIS >>> >>> gnis:feature_id (allows feebdack on the data set, corresponds to original >>> data) >>> >>> Is there anything else we can do to improve our plan? >>> >>> Relevant links: >>> >>> WikiProject Indonesia: >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Indonesia >>> >>> Here is my user page on the wiki. >>> >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Alexrollin >>> >>> -- >>> Alex >>> >>> ___ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/l
Re: [Tagging] Personal Keys for WikiProject, Survey Data for Import
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > That is really poor idea. IMHO remembering location and object type should > be enough to identify it. > OK, I'm game: let us say it is a node with an amenity and name tag attached. Let us also say that the positioning is absolutely accurate, for the sake of the cases. Let us say my goal is to maintain the node, in the same place, and to add international names and more information over time. These are heritage objects, for the most part, not commercial locations. So, I post it to OSM, and then it is changed. Change case 1. Someone moves the node, changes the name, changes and the amenity tags (new, different amenity value) Change case 2. Someone deletes the node, and then someone else adds it again in a slightly (100m) different position How do I know/get-notified it was changed? Specifically, how would you setup a system to receive notification that the object was changed? Have you done it? Do you have some scripts to share? (Can I please NOT have to add a relation?) We are talking about many thousands of nodes, btw. Oh, btw, should we be busy stripping out all the USGS GNIS tags? Of course not, so, I am new to this, and I spend a lot of time on OSM, but I really don't know where to start with scripting tracking for thousands of nodes that might get a new unique ID every other week. Where do I start? > 2014-09-18 1:43 GMT+02:00 Alex Rollin : > >> Hello, >> >> We are surveying for local points of interest. >> >> We need to store an ID for these objects to keep track of them. I think >> this is called a "personal key"? >> >> Something like indonesiaheritage:ID=231892312 >> >> Is that the acceptable format for such a thing? >> >> We will then publish a page on the wiki about the data, and connect that >> page to the WikiProject. >> >> I am deducing from what I see for the USGS_GNIS survey import: >> >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/USGS_GNIS >> >> gnis:feature_id (allows feebdack on the data set, corresponds to original >> data) >> >> Is there anything else we can do to improve our plan? >> >> Relevant links: >> >> WikiProject Indonesia: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Indonesia >> >> Here is my user page on the wiki. >> >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Alexrollin >> >> -- >> Alex >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Personal Keys for WikiProject, Survey Data for Import
The answers you will receive will fall in the following categories - it's OK to use the ID you propose. - OSM is not an storages for external IDs, the external DB should link to OSM objects - use wikipedia / wikidata links and no agreement will be reached :-) But that's OSM. regards m On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:43 AM, Alex Rollin wrote: > Hello, > > We are surveying for local points of interest. > > We need to store an ID for these objects to keep track of them. I think > this is called a "personal key"? > > Something like indonesiaheritage:ID=231892312 > > Is that the acceptable format for such a thing? > > We will then publish a page on the wiki about the data, and connect that > page to the WikiProject. > > I am deducing from what I see for the USGS_GNIS survey import: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/USGS_GNIS > > gnis:feature_id (allows feebdack on the data set, corresponds to original > data) > > Is there anything else we can do to improve our plan? > > Relevant links: > > WikiProject Indonesia: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Indonesia > > Here is my user page on the wiki. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Alexrollin > > -- > Alex > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Personal Keys for WikiProject, Survey Data for Import
That is really poor idea. IMHO remembering location and object type should be enough to identify it. 2014-09-18 1:43 GMT+02:00 Alex Rollin : > Hello, > > We are surveying for local points of interest. > > We need to store an ID for these objects to keep track of them. I think > this is called a "personal key"? > > Something like indonesiaheritage:ID=231892312 > > Is that the acceptable format for such a thing? > > We will then publish a page on the wiki about the data, and connect that > page to the WikiProject. > > I am deducing from what I see for the USGS_GNIS survey import: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/USGS_GNIS > > gnis:feature_id (allows feebdack on the data set, corresponds to original > data) > > Is there anything else we can do to improve our plan? > > Relevant links: > > WikiProject Indonesia: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Indonesia > > Here is my user page on the wiki. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Alexrollin > > -- > Alex > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Personal Keys for WikiProject, Survey Data for Import
Hello, We are surveying for local points of interest. We need to store an ID for these objects to keep track of them. I think this is called a "personal key"? Something like indonesiaheritage:ID=231892312 Is that the acceptable format for such a thing? We will then publish a page on the wiki about the data, and connect that page to the WikiProject. I am deducing from what I see for the USGS_GNIS survey import: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/USGS_GNIS gnis:feature_id (allows feebdack on the data set, corresponds to original data) Is there anything else we can do to improve our plan? Relevant links: WikiProject Indonesia: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Indonesia Here is my user page on the wiki. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Alexrollin -- Alex ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
