Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Clifford Snow]

Thanks for all the comments.

SomeoneElse wrote on the proposal talk page: The page currently uses both
"handicap" and "disabled"; I'd suggest using "disabled" throughout (see
e.g. https://www.gov.uk/apply-blue-badge ) as that's the terminology used
in UK versions of English. I'm not exactly sure what a "handicap_van" is,
but I'm guessing that the nearest UK English term might be "wheelchair
accessible vehicle". SomeoneElse
 (talk
) 00:30, 25
October 2019 (UTC)

I agree. I should have used disabled. I'll revise the proposal to
substitute disabled for handicap. Wheelchair_accessible_vehicle is somewhat
long, I'd like to propose substituting accessIble_van instead.


Warin and Sebastian - Yes adding width is helpful, but providing data
consumers with specific places for parking, which already exist along with
pedestrian routing, especially for those with limited mobility is
strengthened by having dedicated tags for footways designed especially for
wheelchair users to access cars and vans.

marc wrote -
in the propal section, you said "access_aisle=handicap"
but them "add access_aisle=handicap_van"
handicap_van is not an handicap. it's the véhicule the user leave/reach.
I see two types of access_aisles, the first is an area next to a handicap
parking space. It's wide enough for a person with limited mobility to get
into an out of their vehicle. The other is specifically designed for van
equipped with a ramp for wheelchairs. A van with a ramp is limited to just
spaces specifically designed for vans while the regular handicap parking
can use either.
in the tagging section, you said
"footway=disabled_access_aisle" : what's the added value to glue and
duplicate wheelchair into another key=value ? wheelchair=yes already
exist to describe that this way is usable for a wheelchair user.
you also said  "If the disabled parking space is for vans add
disabled_access_aisle=van"
to witch object ? to the amenity=parking_space i hope.
if so, I'm the current pratice seems better wheelchair=yes
=designated

My wording was confusing - I tried to clean it up to not only reflect the
change from handicap to disabled but to make sure all segments use the same
format.

Check out the updated version of the proposal at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_aisle

Best,
Clifford

-- 
@osm_washington
www.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 25 ott 2019, alle ore 14:36, marc marc  
> ha scritto:
> 
> highway=footway is sometime (counry-specific) restricted to way
> with a traffic sign like the current one in its wiki page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dfootway
> I never see sutch sign for path in a parking.


I guess this is country specific, I’ve quite often seen horizontal signage for 
this kind of footway. Also in similar situations (multi level parking) 
https://live.staticflickr.com/531/31980788515_74d005b847_b.jpg

Cheers Martin ___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[marc marc]

Hello,

Le 24.10.19 à 21:12, Clifford Snow a écrit :
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_aisle

highway=footway is sometime (counry-specific) restricted to way
with a traffic sign like the current one in its wiki page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dfootway
I never see sutch sign for path in a parking.
maybe it's better to allow footway/path=* depending of
the current local pratice.

in the propal section, you said "access_aisle=handicap"
but them "add access_aisle=handicap_van"
handicap_van is not an handicap. it's the véhicule the user leave/reach.

in the tagging section, you said
"footway=disabled_access_aisle" : what's the added value to glue and 
duplicate wheelchair into another key=value ? wheelchair=yes already
exist to describe that this way is usable for a wheelchair user.
you also said  "If the disabled parking space is for vans add 
disabled_access_aisle=van"
to witch object ? to the amenity=parking_space i hope.
if so, I'm the current pratice seems better wheelchair=yes 
=designated

So all the proposal can be reducte to footway/path=access_aisle no ?

Regards,
Marc
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

These seem similar to the swiss pedestrian lanes we were talking about last
week here. They are not separated by a curb (i.e. are likely not to be
considered "sidewalks") and cars may drive on them, provided they take care
of pedestrians.
for reference:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-October/048773.html

Cheers,
Martin
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Mateusz Konieczny]

25 Oct 2019, 01:03 by 61sundow...@gmail.com:

> On 25/10/19 06:12, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
>> I'd like to propose a tagging scheme to tag parking lot access aisle. Access 
>> aisles are marked areas often used between handicap parking spaces but also 
>> used to indicate pedestrian access between parking spaces.
>>
>> The proposal can be found on the wiki [1]
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_aisle
>>
> Sorry Clifford, but these are simply footways for pedestrians and can be 
> mapped as such. they should connect to other footways.
>
Note that proposal is about new tag added to highway=footway. Such features 
would be mapped as
footways.

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Michael Patrick]

> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle
>
> >  Sorry Clifford, but these are simply footways for pedestrians and can
> be
> mapped as such.  I don't see anything that makes it necessary for a
> new tag
>

They aren't simple, if you've ever had to incorporate all the various
design features required ( International, Federal, State, County, and
Municipal rules ), also, they usually have regulatory and legal aspects
attached to them that make them different - for instance, electric v.
vehicles are allowed, use restrictions, etc.

+1 for Clifford
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Taskar Center]

Thank you, @Clifford. 
This could be very helpful for navigation of transit hubs and park and rides. 

Unfortunately, knowing where these pathways are *not* is even more helpful 
because many times, when these paths are missing, people have to go into the 
parking aisle (or traffic) to reach the nearest ramped access-point to connect 
to protected sidewalks. While OSM doesn’t support missing pathways, at least 
clearly demarcating where they are is helpful. 

I also agree with @Sebastian who suggested the width can be informative (but 
unfortunately not always within reach for mappers). Many times the accessible 
paths are actually not wide enough for all wheelchair ramps and lifts.

Thanks,
Anat




Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 5:47 PM Sebastian Dicke via Tagging 
>  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> an additional tag would not be bad. But the tagging as footways is
> sufficient, imho. To help users you should prefer to tag the (estimated)
> width.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Sebastian
> 
> 
> Am 25.10.19 um 01:03 schrieb Warin:
> > On 25/10/19 06:12, Clifford Snow wrote:
> >> I'd like to propose a tagging scheme to tag parking lot access aisle.
> >> Access aisles are marked areas often used between handicap parking
> >> spaces but also used to indicate pedestrian access between parking
> >> spaces.
> >>
> >> The proposal can be found on the wiki [1]
> >>
> >> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_aisle
> >>
> > Sorry Clifford, but these are simply footways for pedestrians and can
> > be mapped as such. they should connect to other footways.
> > I don't see anything that makes it necessary for a new tag other than
> > convince of the mapper to imply a wider width and proximity to parking.
> > The width can be tagged and the proximity to parking would be obvious
> > if the parking is mapped.
> >
> > ___
> > Tagging mailing list
> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> 
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Sebastian Dicke via Tagging]

Hi,


an additional tag would not be bad. But the tagging as footways is
sufficient, imho. To help users you should prefer to tag the (estimated)
width.


Regards


Sebastian


Am 25.10.19 um 01:03 schrieb Warin:

On 25/10/19 06:12, Clifford Snow wrote:

I'd like to propose a tagging scheme to tag parking lot access aisle.
Access aisles are marked areas often used between handicap parking
spaces but also used to indicate pedestrian access between parking
spaces.

The proposal can be found on the wiki [1]

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_aisle


Sorry Clifford, but these are simply footways for pedestrians and can
be mapped as such. they should connect to other footways.
I don't see anything that makes it necessary for a new tag other than
convince of the mapper to imply a wider width and proximity to parking.
The width can be tagged and the proximity to parking would be obvious
if the parking is mapped.

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Leif Rasmussen]

@Warin this could be said of sidewalks too - "they're just footways".  Why
is this any different?  I personally think that my adding this new tag,
which can easily be ignored by data consumers, we would add a new tool for
consumers who want to, for example, study how accessable parking lots are.
Also, even if this isn't all that useful, at least we'll have a clear way
to map them to avoid inconsistencies in data.
Leif Rasmussen

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 7:04 PM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25/10/19 06:12, Clifford Snow wrote:
> > I'd like to propose a tagging scheme to tag parking lot access aisle.
> > Access aisles are marked areas often used between handicap parking
> > spaces but also used to indicate pedestrian access between parking
> > spaces.
> >
> > The proposal can be found on the wiki [1]
> >
> > [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_aisle
> >
> Sorry Clifford, but these are simply footways for pedestrians and can be
> mapped as such. they should connect to other footways.
> I don't see anything that makes it necessary for a new tag other than
> convince of the mapper to imply a wider width and proximity to parking.
> The width can be tagged and the proximity to parking would be obvious if
> the parking is mapped.
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Warin]

On 25/10/19 06:12, Clifford Snow wrote:
I'd like to propose a tagging scheme to tag parking lot access aisle. 
Access aisles are marked areas often used between handicap parking 
spaces but also used to indicate pedestrian access between parking 
spaces.


The proposal can be found on the wiki [1]

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_aisle

Sorry Clifford, but these are simply footways for pedestrians and can be 
mapped as such. they should connect to other footways.
I don't see anything that makes it necessary for a new tag other than 
convince of the mapper to imply a wider width and proximity to parking.
The width can be tagged and the proximity to parking would be obvious if 
the parking is mapped.


___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Clifford Snow]

I'd like to propose a tagging scheme to tag parking lot access aisle.
Access aisles are marked areas often used between handicap parking spaces
but also used to indicate pedestrian access between parking spaces.

The proposal can be found on the wiki [1]

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/access_aisle

Best,
Clifford

-- 
@osm_washington
www.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging