Re: [Tagging] Proposal - RFC - man_made=lamp
Am 05/nov/2013 um 08:32 schrieb Manuel Hohmann mhohm...@physnet.uni-hamburg.de: Yes, indeed I was thinking about this (or rather light_fitting, which should be UK English), which would be the correct technical term. I finally used lamp for the following reasons: If I see this right, lamp technically seems to refer to the light emitting, usually changeable, component described here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp_(electrical_component) (just the same as the German Lampe, which colloquially is also sometimes used for Leuchte, but actually shouldn't). I'd prefer to stick to correct terminology in order to avoid confusion (e.g. lamp:colour, it should be clear if this refers to the lamp or the fixture) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposal - RFC - man_made=lamp
Am 03.11.2013 um 14:52 schrieb Manuel Hohmann mhohm...@physnet.uni-hamburg.de: I propose the tag man_made=lamp for lamps, together with a number of additional tags for lamp type, light source, power and so on. Central motivations for this proposal are: Wouldn't it make more sense use the tag light_fixture (de Leuchte)? Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposal - RFC - man_made=lamp
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wouldn't it make more sense use the tag light_fixture (de Leuchte)? Let me refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_fixture here. Yes, indeed I was thinking about this (or rather light_fitting, which should be UK English), which would be the correct technical term. I finally used lamp for the following reasons: - - The term lamp is in colloquial use for a light fixture (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp) and used more often than the technical term. - - The term lamp appears in combinations such as street lamp (also called street light), signal lamp, and so on. - - Many of the sub-tags lamp:* actually refer to properties (colour, power...) of the lamp. Maybe a native speaker could comment on this, in particular on the first item and common usage of these terms. One could also think about light instead of lamp, as in street light, flood light... But I fear a confusion with traffic lights, which should not be affected by this. Best, Manuel PS: Unfortunately I'll be leaving for a several week business trip today and I don't know when I'll be able to do and OSM related stuff after this. So if anyone would like to adopt the proposal from me, please let me know. Otherwise, and if there is no urgent veto against it, I would open voting, and I'll be back when the voting period is over. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSeJ7zAAoJEPvf9RrsekSy/hsH+wd4uiYQE0RqVrjCxtAjqME9 DfMifmrzfr1F5gxnDMMvLvqGIxgdDMtTtdzhTi4eKMJixpYPkvjcVfTw2g/Sf/zp jfBZCT5EfdvPD8d9y7WFf2hmaZZGuKy2m05aWIU5YWLVAa/8ktY9b1ZdZfT4rpY8 OcIgFxBHXGfitl6Zaf1+wRlrouQCm8JYQ4djZzyNljJX2n3CHcdxzlRYps6Iy1ir l2fjb5QC38F9M/rwbmQjsJEPYfiLPLTdt9rRR89VZlarnlxrpv2k5CambJqwu6O4 e8JVcZpbtbfSi3svkZg/WEhkd7ipEYHDQwlvUzbQmrIMozzF/F5iZcrbuv0WCWk= =NY+e -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Proposal - RFC - man_made=lamp
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, I propose the tag man_made=lamp for lamps, together with a number of additional tags for lamp type, light source, power and so on. Central motivations for this proposal are: - - Lamps are clearly visible landmarks for orientation, mainly at night. - - Mapping lamps gives a detailed image of the lighting situation. The present tagging does not suffice for this: - - highway=street_lamp does not apply to any other lamp type. - - Tagging lamps as highway features is at least questionable. - - There is no tag for other types of lamps. - - There are no tags for lamp properties, such as light source and power. You can find the full proposal for a unified lamp tagging here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/lamp This tagging has evolved from a thorough discussion in the German OSM forum: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=23041 In the forum it has also been suggested to start voting soon, since mapping lamps is done most easily during the dark time of the year, which is just starting (in the northern hemisphere, where most mappers are located). Voting will therefore be opened soon, unless there are further suggestions / improvement / discussions required. Best, Manuel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdlUMAAoJEPvf9RrsekSyRBAIAKKJPEXvoMP4MFFkCqgUvGe/ 3yfvO4whc3Eiy3NI1xGhjj0sHH/mQ/qmJvTQhn23Sw1eRdCFY52dzrtN9uNmlSGG KGoDw/mKsN1BhpWB8lIfNBFjoYJCHLgTtsdo7XmZAkXzELmzV0DgtajR16CovCln 3pjrHe8Uc9IQ35/K3tYa9G7v1r8FOMQ5EzUEWrLR+8HD9jIi+Hqi+cYIul0iYL5F ac4Hy3fZ/hftVhLroqlvYZG30efxF98L8WjuL+rokESC2AwD7Uovod178u8ghG0H Wb6fUoebOXDNivs9HbY8LCJaf1RZUr1FB3EjWjw8l1W7gl8Hn0do9hvpTjT5HZo= =H7nz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposal - RFC - man_made=lamp
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 03.11.2013 14:52, Manuel Hohmann wrote: - There are no tags for lamp properties, such as light source and power. lamp_type has 20,000 uses and lamp_mount has 17,000; this proposal tries to replace them both? You can find the full proposal for a unified lamp tagging here: Frankly, this sounds like typical astronaut tagging. A group of people got together and thought: Now what could we *possibly* want to tag about a lamp? and everything has been written down. Next thing, a helpful soul will create a JOSM template that has *every* *single* *one* of the 20 tags in that proposal, and gives people the impression that they should really know the aperture angle or else the tagging isn't good. I recommend to shorten the proposal to two or three tags and let people map a couple thousand lamps first, then see where the journey goes. Therein lies the quality of a proposal - to capture the essential bits, not to make endless lists of detailed stuff that could possibly be mapped. Creating a full blown feature catalog before the first lamp aperture has ever been mapped hasn't been our style in the past. Bye Frederik - -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdpufAAoJEOx/uhGAJu9HiagIAJcxjnSiwlY2TkeWIYIBh6Aw vsFh/UjNbTsJY1nGGerOjYyMzNi33H0BIBDZBZOuFlkNWW4cG5ToNLh/Kr4AjEhW xog3yPP+GRqnypLlZtFh5Vy37z68Txee8fLmZWcnPLE+9WQO0x2dSiC8P4ZMlqGL 0LGv5zsi055rqcnj0f1RNzCELRTDraUpkE4Xh7XBXbnATe58ikWsfTH0/mnaKUKY rUNIVWChSy9TTj+2T5BndIooYaQ4rwfNDL6RfKQn49r/6sCXwuvqst+5WIzNaVoD gImchsfjla0L7DGARIclvKPWdb9dx7dKIPu9m+q8KWYzx94hDWCjCrkzr3PuY1w= =B5KS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposal - RFC - man_made=lamp
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 03.11.2013 14:52, Manuel Hohmann wrote: In the forum it has also been suggested to start voting soon, since mapping lamps is done most easily during the dark time of the year, There is no link. Anyone can map lamps whether or not the voting has been started. Even if the proposal is rejected, people can still map lamps. Bye Frederik - -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdpvaAAoJEOx/uhGAJu9Hy6sH/izgNKaf02r8GS/bUWmYv8pV aCR8G9WZ5EpUG6OZ7X7IedAHNgA8Udh6AAIsDXDF+7t7pYhBwWa1I8C0TGKsx+Dv lVPY2p9jSOqHDC52sUEdFjhO6Do5GuOS/Sz/wE7IKcqEoraFAyM1ILdzQFqWoBPP fdsnlv1QnCXTGR8zE/PcDpLOZKhMR+Fgr/NW/Yzxi0WZuG8R89G5hRm3hj8y5xmI FXu6E9LqZSwI05tXd2Fn44iRkPyEaxhGgYbeBVn0caa05RRIskMvZN0s+EzhaWOg IVPYZGBlVklLOyjcTP4YO8yXTDcvPViakVBVAcIU8hnopvPdv+rwsoRRIq51E9A= =+5Rg -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposal - RFC - man_made=lamp
On 03/11/13 13:52, Manuel Hohmann wrote: You can find the full proposal for a unified lamp tagging here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/lamp This tagging has evolved from a thorough discussion in the German OSM forum: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=23041 I had a quick scan through those, but it's not immediately clear to me what problem you're trying to solve. What nature of illuminated things are OSM mappers failing to capture in the absence of a lamp proposal? Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposal - RFC - man_made=lamp
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 lamp_type has 20,000 uses and lamp_mount has 17,000; this proposal tries to replace them both? Yes. Frankly, this sounds like typical astronaut tagging. A group of people got together and thought: Now what could we *possibly* want to tag about a lamp? and everything has been written down. Basically that's the plan. Next thing, a helpful soul will create a JOSM template that has *every* *single* *one* of the 20 tags in that proposal, and gives people the impression that they should really know the aperture angle or else the tagging isn't good. The first part is true, the second is wrong. It is written in the proposal that these additional tags are optional and should be added only if known. This will also be emphasized in the JOSM template. Nobody is forced to enter any of this information. This is just the same as with parking lots, highways and so on - also there the JOSM templates contain lots of tags such as surface, width, maxheight, maxspeed and a plethora of access tags. Yet it works. I recommend to shorten the proposal to two or three tags and let people map a couple thousand lamps first, then see where the journey goes. As you wrote above, we already have thousands of lamps with 2-3 tags. Therein lies the quality of a proposal - to capture the essential bits, not to make endless lists of detailed stuff that could possibly be mapped. Of course, essential and non-essential things should be distinguished, I don't doubt that. I'll try to make this distinction more apparent in the proposal, which goes beyond the essential (and yet done) there is a lamp tagging. Creating a full blown feature catalog before the first lamp aperture has ever been mapped hasn't been our style in the past. Indeed it has been the past style that everybody starts mapping something and invents new tags, and when there is a number of conflicting taggings, it needs to be cleaned up. This is exactly the reason why I suggest tags for these things, before everybody comes up with their own tags and we get the same mess again. There is no link. Anyone can map lamps whether or not the voting has been started. Even if the proposal is rejected, people can still map lamps. If there is no agreed way to map something, people will either invent their own tagging or not map something at all. Of course I could just start mapping lamps, powers, colours and apertures right away, but if nobody else agrees with this, it does not make much sense. I had a quick scan through those, but it's not immediately clear to me what problem you're trying to solve. What nature of illuminated things are OSM mappers failing to capture in the absence of a lamp proposal? Have a look at the examples / pictures in the proposal which are not street lamps. Manuel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdt8QAAoJEPvf9RrsekSyq+oH/jSQNN+3QEAa4vqF02uXOLR6 JJN2vWimStoWBgEj3qb6A0gUtUMlK9rxIhsItavSjdQmHtenrAx00eVS74imgTqx IRuwWwmirWAAkebbX2LVumzJrCOZ/jLqoO5ilbE5+QepD+Sk1e3d0KY5J5H7hCSE x87cBxi3znrScis8GVRDtZNedxG/y1fQxoabOFoPwP8Bn7oAD1ayyBd2D18R53k/ kx3vovF+Slo84kmJ2+IOzAkPQ95txlB3yjWUxKR37APoSzdiW07SHfqO4Le+BEvN E5/+955EXkv01IS1aKqTyFnQzEaX4FzMjIPlZBbXGbvM12RZgxnQbotB9DRt060= =beZ6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
